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Viewing topic "What the Motif XF means to different people"

   
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Posted on: August 01, 2010 @ 09:44 PM
Yamaha_US
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What does the Motif XF mean to Motif XS users ?
There have been lots of discussions about who the target for Motif XF is and some misconceptions.  So we thought we would put together some thoughts on different Motif owners and what the Motif XF means to them.

If you own an XS and decide for whatever reason that you don’t want to upgrade right away, what does the XF mean to you ?

Well, first you get the benefits of a portion of the XF development as we are planning on releasing an OS upgrade that adds some of the features of the XF to the XS.  This was not as simple a decision as it might seem.  Some companies would devote all their attention and resources to just the new product.  However we felt that by showing support for a product (the Motif XS) we will no longer sell or manufacturer, it would give people confidence that we support our customers and that we would provide the same kind of support for the XF.

Second, you also will get the benefit of all the new software applications and new sound libraries that are being developed for the XF.  Because there is 100% compatibility between the two products , the libraries will be developed first to be able to load into the Motif XS and then version will be created that add Motif XF exclusive ROM waves.  You have already seen the benefits in the release of John Melas Waveform Editor and the new Motif Creator software from Chicken Systems.  These were designed first to support the Xs and will be ported to have XF support in the next few weeks.

So in many ways, the Motif XF launch is a very good thing for current Motif XS users.

If you own an XS and decide to upgrade, what does the XF mean to you ?

We think that the Motif XF is a significant upgrade in wave ROM, usability and all the factors that make a Motif a Motif.  There have been rumors that the XF is targeted to ES users, but this is not true.  We think anyone who uses samples or would like to put hasn’t because of the inconvenience of having to load your samples every time you turn on the keyboard will release that the Flash boards are a very significant fundamental change in the way you can work.  If you have 512 or 1 GB of RAM in your XS now, just imagine never having to wait for it to load samples again.

The XF is 100% compatible with XS files so you could buy a Motif XF and a Flashboard and in about a half hour you would be working with your new keyboard with all your data stored in flash.  This is the easiest transition between Motif models that has ever existed.

If you own an ES and decide to upgrade, what does the XF mean to you ?

The Motif XF is also compatible with ES files ( not Performances or Masters because the spec has changed , but about everything else).  It would be the same process of upgrading from an ES to an XS.  So what’s unique is that you can actually move up and transfer your data through two generations of Motif easily which ahs not be in the case in the past.

If you own an original Motif and decide to upgrade, what does the XF mean to you ?

There is no compatibility between the original Motif and the XF however the difference between the two keyboards is pretty dramatic.  We stopped selling the Motif in 2004 so it has been almost seven years.  Isn’t it time for an upgrade ?

We are also targeting all the people who own competitors’ workstations and new users who are just joining the ranks.

By the end of the month, we will be putting together a loyalty program in the US as we did with the Motif ES and XS.  This will offer special add on values (discount coupons, extended warranties, valued added sound content) to people who upgrade whether it is from a Motif, ES, XS or competitor’s product.

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Posted on: August 01, 2010 @ 09:58 PM
Dreamflight
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Thank you for posting all this information.

I personally can’t see any reason to change the XS for the XF, as architecturally they seem to be the same beast. I was rather hoping for a new synth. I didn’t expect it, but I was hoping I was wrong :)

If it tempts pre-XS owners to upgrade then I guess that can’t be a bad thing though.

The Motif range is, undoubtedly, top of its class. The XF is a mere incremental update to the top model however, and I perceive it as offering the least in terms of improvement over its predecessor than any other synth in the Motif series. The ES was a big step up from the original Motif, the XS was a huge step up from the ES, and the XF is… well, basically an XS with some more peripheral niceties but fundamentally the same beast if you look under the marketing.

As an experienced XS owner, I was really hoping for new synthesis models, bigger sequencer memory, maybe a 32 track sequencer, higher polyphony, more insert FX (or better routing thereof), seamless transition between voices in voice mode, step recording, the next generation of the legendary arpeggiators, more analogue outputs, true multitrack audio recording to internal HD ... that kind of thing. From the specs though, it seems that most if not all of the existing XS limitations (sample RAM aside) are present in the XF.

Hopefully these limitations will disappear in whatever series follows the Motif. As it stands, it looks like the Motif series has kinda ‘topped out’ with the XS/XF. Perhaps we should blame the recession.

Df.

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Posted on: August 01, 2010 @ 10:08 PM
kday
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Joined  02-17-2004
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Because the ES had fantastic filters, effects and a wonderful Digital to Analog converters, the flash rom alone is worth an upgrade to me even if I already had the XS. For me there is nothing better than to be able to have your own sounds instantly available onboard all the time. That’s better than ext cards and ext hard drives.

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Posted on: August 01, 2010 @ 10:12 PM
ZombieRaider
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status: Enthusiast
Yamaha_US - 01 August 2010 09:44 PM

Well, first you get the benefits of a portion of the XF development as we are planning on releasing an OS upgrade that adds some of the features of the XF to the XS.

Hat’s off to Yamaha for realizing this adds a thing called VALUE to a product line...Obviously the short term benefit would be to move all resources to the new model....Long term benefit is the reputation you earn as a company that stands behind it’s products and customers even though there is new product, That’s commitment! It also shows you are willing to go the extra mile which is what a winning company does...I look forward to see what kind of loyalty program you offer to the new model...ZR

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Posted on: August 01, 2010 @ 10:14 PM
jasonthebaldguy
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This is what I was expecting!  Knowing as you mentioned Dreamflight the recession has really put a damper on things.  I could not fathom a gamechanging new flagship synth… it didn’t feel right… should have been announced at Namm or something… mebby I am wrong… but this just felt like the right way to extend the investment in a solid hardware platform… I like so many things about the XS and as probably everyone knows by now tap tempo was a huge rain on my parade. I am not generally so irritating or demanding on features. honestly the XS covers the majority of all my wishes already… I have been designing sounds since I got my first SY77 and there are so many ways to get great sound out of the motif…
Now I just hope we get the benefits of the new UI designs along with some of the functionality of the XF… I am already excited about the new patches that will be available… I am not a huge sample user so the flash upgrade is not critical..... now I will just tap my fingers in anticipation of the OS update release.

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Posted on: August 01, 2010 @ 10:18 PM
Jote
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I agree, after 3.5 years I was expecting something vastly different. But then again I fully understand that due to recession the R&D;might have been cut off - synthesizers are niche products.

On another hand I’m happy that I’m not THAT tempted to upgrade ;) and I won’t be suffering badly from GAS :)

I was expecting 16 inserts though. And all the Tyros goodies - so far it seems only trumpet shakes and sax falls have been included. Well, can’t wait for the manuals and data lists to arrive!

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Posted on: August 01, 2010 @ 10:43 PM
radore
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I think that the Motif ES was the top of the line synth and everything after its release is a downgrade.

Motif XS ?  No Plugin Boards…
Motif XF ?  No mLAN…
Not even to mention the step sequencing…

So basically what I’m saying is that for me the XF is a downgrade to downgrade. To see all these wonderful technologies just abandoned it’s so sad. I know that this has been discussed and discussed about the PLG but that’s the way I feel.
The sampling RAM/FLASH is not an alternative to PLGs.
The FW is not an alternative to the mLAN.

Yes, I was very excited at first for the new XF but as I read through the features and the answers here I must say I’m disappointed.

The new features can’t compensate for the removed features.

P.S. I will upgrade, eventually. :)

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Posted on: August 01, 2010 @ 11:39 PM
delirium
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for me F stands for Freaking - (awesome)

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Posted on: August 02, 2010 @ 01:05 AM
botega
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the XF has plenty to offer for Classic\ES owners which consider the upgrade, if i didn’t own an XS i would probably be very excited about the new XF but in my opinion, XS has been the most significant upgrade in the Motif series evolution and the way i see it the XF is a minor expanded version of the XS, nothing really new and exciting under the sun to make me want to buy it.

i have been using Motif’s since 2002, i had the Classic then the ES and since 2007 i have the XS, if the XF was a true breaking through Motif with some new breaking through features then i would probably buy it but unfortunately it’s not, it is an XS in disguise or maby an XS on some steroids (:

i’ll wait a few years until Yamaha will hopefully come up with something completely new and different and till then i’ll never stop checking for some new exciting keyboards on the market.

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Posted on: August 02, 2010 @ 02:32 AM
radurobert
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I need those -NEW- XF waveforms as an upgrade for XS ram memory.

So please can u make a free sound expansion with those -1000- XF waveforms ?

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Posted on: August 02, 2010 @ 05:22 AM
Wilton
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Joined  04-03-2004
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What it means to me is this: I just “inherited” a Motif XS 61 on a show I just joined. It’s got some great sounds, but it falls down on a couple as well. For example it doesn’t have a really good blues harmonica. Now this may seem minor until your position is required to produce that sound and the act wants to hear it. Of course the Motifs all allow samples to be loaded. Now, however, we can view custom samples as ROM memory. Techs cut the power. No problem. They’re up, you’re up as long as it takes the instrument to boot. And that’s with 2 gig of custom sounds. Done right, that’s a lot of customization.

What it means is that I can bring a Motif XF, which, to the uninitiated looks like a typical Motif they’ve seen on many high-profile stages, albeit the color is different (thank goodness). But what they don’t know (until we start negotiating) is that I’ve custom built my sound palette to fit their gig. Get rid of me, get rid of the sound palette. Maybe not such a big deal in the big picture, but some people get very comfortable with the sounds they are used to hearing.

What we’re talking about from a purely business standpoint is differentiation - a key component in competition and strategy. Yet the Motif is a standard in modern music environments. Within a couple of years all backline companies will own these models. So the 2 gigs is where the user gets to be different, competitive, creative. And without using a PC or a Receptor, both either unreliable or unreasonably priced (consider the Receptor with all the synths you want - not cheap. And now you have two pieces to deal with - the module and the keyboard. I like this idea. An industry standard instrument with a 2 gig flash option to customize with the end result being you don’t have to sound like everyone else who owns the instrument. Beautiful.

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Posted on: August 02, 2010 @ 06:25 AM
Yamaha_US
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The post by Dreamflight at the very beginning of this thread has some valid points.

The Motif XS and and the Motif XF are based on the same core proprietary sound engine and also the same Linux based OS.

So Dreamflight was right that compared to the architectural differences between the Motif and the Motif ES and then the ES and the XS, the differences between the XS and XF are less. In each previous generation of Motifs, there was both a new sound chip ( which added more polyphone/effects) and a new core processor/OS (which made new features easier to implement).

But don’t underestimate the one new architectural difference which is the Flash memory.  There is nothing on the market that has this capability.  The only thing close is the Nord Wave which has a total of 180 MB of Flash memory (no RAM and no ROM).

With 128 MB of SDRAM, 741 MB of ROM and 2 GB of optional flash ram , the XF is a very customizable and very capable synth. 

We don’t expect every XS user to run out tomorrow and buy an XF ( although it would be nice for us of course).  The same was truw with the ES.  The ES or the original Motif are still very viable keyboards for gigging and music production and there are many people who are still using them.

The point of our post was to put some perspective on the the release of the new product and clarify some of the advantages that XS users get from the XF release evne if they don’t upgrade.

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Posted on: August 02, 2010 @ 06:55 AM
miket156
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Joined  06-28-2004
status: Pro

Quote by Dreamflight:

“As an experienced XS owner, I was really hoping for new synthesis models, bigger sequencer memory, maybe a 32 track sequencer, higher polyphony, more insert FX (or better routing thereof), seamless transition between voices in voice mode, step recording, the next generation of the legendary arpeggiators, more analogue outputs, true multitrack audio recording to internal HD ... that kind of thing. From the specs though, it seems that most if not all of the existing XS limitations (sample RAM aside) are present in the XF.”

I would have liked to see some of these upgrades as well, but lets face it, that would mean a total redesign of the XS class synth.

As an ES8 owner, I have to consider that just the ROM in the XF is more than 4 times larger than my ES, and with the addition of up to 2GB of flash memory that I could load and store a wide array of different samples and converted VST sounds, the available on-board sounds alone is a HUGE difference between the XF and my ES8. Add in all the other features, and I can see a lot of ES owners will be buying the XF. Its time to move up.

Cheers,

Mike T.

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Posted on: August 02, 2010 @ 07:05 AM
nbadesign
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Yamaha_US - 02 August 2010 06:25 AM

We don’t expect every XS user to run out tomorrow and buy an XF ( although it would be nice for us of course).  The same was truw with the ES.  The ES or the original Motif are still very viable keyboards for gigging and music production and there are many people who are still using them.

Nice keyboard, I hope that I could buy XF8 at the beggining of next year. But, as you said ES is still very viable keyboard… like mine filled with VL, AN and DX synth plug-ins and mLAN interface. I’m also capable to work on Cubase 5 although I have started on SX. I could also produce sounds and expressions that many listeners are hard to believe that is played on keyboard. What I would like to say: every product has a buyer. XF is a powerfull and samples to go option is very viable for all that have plans for buying in the near future. Still, I would NEVER sold my fully equiped ES, but hope to add XF to it.

Alex

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Posted on: August 02, 2010 @ 07:18 AM
youdog
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Joined  01-30-2009
status: Enthusiast

Thank you Yamaha for the good new about the OS Upgrade coming for XS ownner that adds some of the features of the XF.

The XF is some what an improvement over the XS because of 2GB flash option. I going to still with the XS this time.

I personlly feels the the recessionis is the blame.
Yahama didn’t have to pay the cost to make a total new workstation.

If you look side by side on the out side you can see that the:
1. ES is better than the Classic
2. XS is better than the ES
3. XF is the same as the XS with black paint

I hope to see the XS OS Upgrade soon. Here in Alabama the Motif XS is still the Top Saler so why make something really new. It’s good to know that new sound libraries for XF will work on the XS there is 100% compatibility between the two products a plus for both XF & XS.

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Posted on: August 02, 2010 @ 07:49 AM
bgrosse
Total Posts:  465
Joined  07-06-2009
status: Enthusiast

Yes the XS and XF are very close, but I think if I was playing live in front of a crowd, the thought of a power failure while playing the XS would have me right now standing at my Yamaha dealers receiving dock watching for the very first XF to arrive. ;)

Bill G

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