Failing to record automation i am stumped why it won’t work and could use some pointers to where things could go wrong.

What I have is a simple USB setup, recording stuff from my keyboard to a midi track works flawlessly.

I use an external program to send MIDI commands to change patches, mix settings, etc. via my computer instead adjusting these things directly on the device.

Now i try to automate the chorus send amount for example. In my external program i change the send amount and inside Cubase i can see the MIDI indicator flashing up and the setting is changed. When i hit a key on my MIDI keyboard i can hear the changed send amount instantly.
So according to my logic this means the data is arriving at Cubase and all i should do is hit the “W"rite button and start recording automation. But when it’s recording and then i change a setting in the external motif editor, then the MIDI indicator stops flashing up and also there is no MIDI data recorded (obviously because there is none being received)

Any pointers would be much appericated. Where can i find the information that i am looking for in the motif/cubase manual? Am i assuming something terribly wrong or is this just not how things work?

Thanks for any help!

The wild card is your mysterious (unnamed) external program (is it top secret?)

I cannot comment on this because I
1) don’t know what it is and
2) don’t know what it is sending into Cubase and
3) not at all sure how you have things routed.

Could you give any details about your setup
We know that the Motif-Rack ES is USB to the computer.
How is your keyboard controller connected?
And what is this mysterious external program?
What does external mean in this case (external to the computer), external to Cubase?

Because the data is arriving in Cubase does not mean, necessarily it is being routed to the Track you activated the Write automation function.
Because the data is changing the Motif-Rack ES hardware does not mean necessarily it is being routed to the Track you activated the Write automation function.

It (could) all depend on your routing and connections.

Details please…

Bad_Mister - 01 July 2010 10:58 AM

The wild card is your mysterious (unnamed) external program (is it top secret?)

I cannot comment on this because I
1) don’t know what it is and
2) don’t know what it is sending into Cubase and
3) not at all sure how you have things routed.

Could you give any details about your setup
We know that the Motif-Rack ES is USB to the computer.
How is your keyboard controller connected?
And what is this mysterious external program?
What does external mean in this case (external to the computer), external to Cubase?

Because the data is arriving in Cubase does not mean, necessarily it is being routed to the Track you activated the Write automation function.
Because the data is changing the Motif-Rack ES hardware does not mean necessarily it is being routed to the Track you activated the Write automation function.

It (could) all depend on your routing and connections.

Details please…

Thanks for the reply.

I used a Java command line tool to send MIDI SysEx messages.
For example I sent F0 43 10 7F 00 37 0B 12 00 F7 to set the reverb send value of part 12 in Multi Part mode to 0.

In the meanwhile I realised my problem was the SysEx Filter in the Cubase MIDI recording options. Now i can record SysEx Data and view/edit all the events in the MIDI list editor of Cubase.

Now this is not really a motif question, but maybe someone can help me anyway:
Is there a way for me to comfortably edit a parameter over time in Cubase, for example using vector based SysEx message editing? Let’s say I wanted to gradually change the before mentioned send amount of part 12 over a few bars, what are the convenient ways to do that?
Is there for example some way to translate pitch wheel values to Motif sysex messages and record automation like that in Cubase?
Or is there a graphical way this can be done with the keyboard/mouse?

The easiest way would be to do it with a mouse. Cubase lets you use the “pencil” tool to draw in controller data.

The exact steps are outlined in the OPERATION MANUAL - Check out the Chapter on AUTOMATION - you can to a great degree customize how the data is entered.

Go to HELP > DOCUMENTATION > Operation Manual

Thank you for the help. It worked like a charm.

Is there a way I can create/import a Motif MIDI Device in Cubase that already contains all SysEx definitons of the Motif Rack ES?
I only found the patch definitions so far (in the “Scripts” dir), but it didn’t contain any SysEx info.
I created a device panel with a knob and assigned and then i was able to draw automation curves for that parameter. But before I start creating panels with tons of parameters I thought I better ask if there exists already such a panel for the Motif Rack ES and also if there is a way to make cubase “learn” new device parameters on the fly? So that for example I could tell Cubase “ok the next incoming SysEx will be “reverb send” and then when i change the knob in for example studio manager, it automatically creates a automation track for this parameter.

I hope it’s more or less clear what I mean, it seems so hard to explain. All I want to do is without too much effort automate arbitrary params of my motif.
I get it working so far, but as i see it it involves creating a new SysEx parameter, then creating a device panel with a knob or slider, then assign the param to this control and automate it from there.
In the manual I also read there should be device panels in my Cubase folder but I could only find scripts with the bank/patch definitions.

Any pointers welcome, please enlighten me! :)

System Exclusive messages are useful in small doses. The Control Change message (for something like changing the amount of a continuous parameter) would be much more efficient. This is one reason they exsit. For example, when changing a parameter that has settings 0 through 127, (like Volume cc07, or Reverb cc091) it is much more efficient to use a continuous Control Change message for this purpose than long strings of System Exclusive messages.

Control Change messages are designed for the most often used, real time, parameters, Modulation, Volume, Pan, Reverb Send, Chorus Send, etc., etc., etc.

There are simply too many System Exclusive messages for any type of script that would allow you to access them all. And besides you will clog up the MIDI data stream with messages that will ultimately interfere with timing. Remember MIDI is serial… this means that one event travels down the wire after the other. When you attempt to send too much data in a stream, like arteries with too much cholesterol, they will clog up and have a heart attack (lol)… actually the clock timing (tempo) will be affected when you reach a certain density.

Stick to Control Change messages when available for what you wish to change. Use System Exclusive messages only when you have no other options and use them for the non-continuous functions.

Ohh I see, yes that makes sense, thanks for the analogy :D

Then I must miss an important fact, as I am still confused about how to use CC to change for example my Reverb send on channel XY when in multi mode. The only way I managed to do that so far in a MIDI track in the Cubase sequencer was to use the SysEx parameters as described in my previous post.

Control Change 91 is REVERB SEND amount… This message is a Channel message. This means that you must place the message on the MIDI channel of the PART you wish to affect.

CC 91 Values run from 0 through 127

Control Change 93 is CHORUS SEND amount. Same deal as with Reverb Send.

This is not only true for the Motif-Rack ES but these are universal commands throughout MIDI.

Wow thanks! Yes that worked perfectly and also this way is much easier to do.

CC 91 “ExtEff 1 Depth” didn’t mean anything to me when I saw this in Cubase. Now after looking at midi.org I found

“CC 91:  Effects 1 Depth
(default: Reverb Send Level - see MMA RP-023)
(formerly External Effects Depth)”

and I am understanding now (finally!) how I am supposed to go about automating motif parameters in realtime and found a nice list there too. Things are starting to make sense, it’s like I am having a epiphany.

Bad Mister I thank you once again for your valuable help, without you this would be only half as fun, seriously. Hats off to you! *bows*