Hi Guys…

Yamaha Motif XS is my first synth, hence learning about synth. I’m encountering some trouble understanding the Filter EG.

I understood about the Amplitude EG (AEG) features, with regards to Attack, Decay, Sustain and Release. However when it comes to Filter EG (I understnad Filter itself which removes part of the sound frequency accordingly), I don’t really now how differ is it’s Attack, Decay, Release and Depth works, as it seems to be these are similar to what the AEG features is already doing.

Hence my questions are
1. Are they (the attack or decay or release of AEG and FEG) subset of one, or they are totally independent?
2. Can we have different Attack (or Decay or Release) time and level for AEG and FEG? If yes, how could they compliment each when setting it differently?
3. Is there a preloaded Yamaha Motif XS voice that is useful for me to test out the effect of FEG Attack, Decay, Release & Depth i.e. to hear the differeces clearly when I test it (by changing the value)?

Thanks in advance for any experience Synth player to shed some light over this…

Regards.

p/s: I’m reading the menu Motif XS menu pg 94, 117 etc over and over, trying to understand it, and try experience it using my keyboard on various sound to change the setting, can’t get over my head yet after hours of trying :(

Hi,

The AEG and FEG are independent of one another.
But, the behavior is the same (they are both envelopes), only they affect different properties of the sound. An envelope is the change of a value (amplitude in AEG, filter cutoff in FEG, and pitch in PEG) over time, which is also why sometimes it’s easier to see as a graph.

For FEG:
Attack - is how much time does it take for the sound to reach full cutoff frequency.
Decay - how long does it take for the sound to decay into the sustained cutoff frequency (which will be constant until you let go of the key)
Sustain- is the cutoff frequency value which will be sustained after the decay has finished, and as long as you hold the key.
Release - the time that it takes for the cutoff frequency to return to it’s original value, from the moment you let go of the key.

Now, in the above explanation you can substitute the words “cutoff frequency” with the word “amplitude” and you’ll get AEG, or you can substitute it with “pitch” and you’ll get PEG.

Hope it helps.

1. Are they (the attack or decay or release of AEG and FEG) subset of one, or they are totally independent?

Totally independent. 

2. Can we have different Attack (or Decay or Release) time and level for AEG and FEG? If yes, how could they compliment each when setting it differently?

Since they are totally independent, yes you can have different attacks, decays, etc… Since AMPLITUDE is loudness, and FILTER is timbre or tone (color), they are independent but musically related functions. If you have the filter attack very slow - and the amplitude attack very fast, depending on the type of filter you may not hear the fast loudness attack of the Amplitude Envelope Generator. So if the filter is closed this affects loudnes as well. So they are related.

Conversely, if you set a Filter RELEASE that takes place after the Amplitude engine has returned the sound to 0, you will not hear the filter’s slow decline.

3. Is there a preloaded Yamaha Motif XS voice that is useful for me to test out the effect of FEG Attack, Decay, Release & Depth i.e. to hear the differeces clearly when I test it (by changing the value)?

Learning about the Filter and the Amplitude is a complex function, and we really are not sure where exactly you are looking.

The Motif XS VOICE architecture is very complex (thus the great sound). You can have as many as 8 multi-sampled layers to a VOICE (these are called ELEMENTS). Each Element has it’s own AEG and it’s own FEG. So Voices can be very (very, very) complex.

However, there is an overall OFFSET AEG and OFFSET FEG - which is kind of a “quick access” parameter that allows you to affect the AEG and FEG of the VOICE overall. It applies an OFFSET value so that each individual ELEMENT within a VOICE has its AEG and/or FEG altered in a kind of overall (general) way.

The Quick Access to the AEG /FEG is found on the main VOICE mode screen by pressing the [F3] EG/EQ

However to best learn about it you may want to navigate to the deeper innards of a VOICE…

The full Element Amplitude engine is found as follows:
Press [EDIT]
Press an Element Select button [1]-[8] to view the individual Element Edit parameters
Press [F4] AMPLITUDE
Press [SF2] AEG

The full Element FILTER engine is found as follows:
Press [EDIT]
Press an Element Select button [1]-[8] to view the individual Element Edit parameters
Press [F3] FILTER
Press [SF2] FEG

Call up the VOICE PRE5:055(D07) Soft RnB
It is a single Element synth lead.
Navigate to the full ELEMENT FILTER and AMPLITUDE…

Here you can SEE and HEAR the results of the changes you make. and you can quickly move back and forth between [F3] FILTER and [F4] AMPLITUDE

You will see that the Envelopes are TIME and LEVEL based. The TIME is “how long” it takes to get to the next level
The LEVEL is “how much” of that item is functioning

The numbers are not linear… a TIME parameter of 127 is a very long time and this can vary depending on what comes before. The lower the number the faster the time… 0 is almost immediate.

TIME is 0-127
LEVEL can be plus or minus

The graphic will help you understand what you are hearing. Experiment.

Then later, move to a Voice that has more than 1 Element and you will begin to see just how complex the XS VOICE can be programmed.

Hope that helps get you started.

Thanks guys. After testing it on Soft RnB sound, I now have better understanding about the Filter “dynamic” settings. It allow the cutoff frequency value dynamically changes over time (i.e. attack, decay, release). Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

I have further enquiries now, more specific to Motif XS features.

1. What is the relationship of the Voice overall EG/EQ settings vs the unit element FEG/AEG settings (refering to attack time, decay time, release time & depth)? Does the Overall Voice EG/EQ extend or override or compliment (take the max if either one) the unit element FEG/AEG setting?

2. As for the Time unit (in both FEG/AEG or EG/EQ), what is the unit used? Is it in 10th of a second? Are both FEG/AEG and EG/EQ using the same time unit? (I find that EG/EQ takes longer than the FEG/AEG by testing a single number on both.... i.e. 40 unit of Attack time in EG/EQ is longer than 40 unit of Attack time in FEG. I didn’t explicitly measure it though, probably just my feeling).

Thanks!!

1.  The EG/EQ is a global setting, meaning it will apply to every element.  The global settings sit ‘on top’ of each element’s settings, so the global settings don’t really override individual settings, they just apply after the individual settings already have applied to each element already. 

I would suggest initialing a voice, making the first element a simple sine wave, or the “long saw” wave, and playing with the FEG/AEG.  You’ll learn a lot that way.

1. What is the relationship of the Voice overall EG/EQ settings vs the unit element FEG/AEG settings (refering to attack time, decay time, release time & depth)? Does the Overall Voice EG/EQ extend or override or compliment (take the max if either one) the unit element FEG/AEG setting?

They are OFFSETS - so the add to or subtract from the settings of the ELEMENT. They are a shortcut and allow those that want to apply quick changes (this is why I referred to them as ‘quick access’ parameters).  Because an ELEMENT can be a portion of an instrument sound or it can be a complete instrument there is no firm rule about what filter is assigned and how the different Elements are reacting to the envelope generator (time and level)… so the ‘quick access’ allows you quickly offset in one direction or the other the response of the AEG or FEG as they are assigned at the Element level. That is why I recommended a one Element Voice to look at initially. It can get very complex depending on what the programmer uses the other Elements to do.

elye - 06 June 2010 05:13 AM

Thanks guys. After testing it on Soft RnB sound, I now have better understanding about the Filter “dynamic” settings. It allow the cutoff frequency value dynamically changes over time (i.e. attack, decay, release). Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

I have further enquiries now, more specific to Motif XS features.

1. What is the relationship of the Voice overall EG/EQ settings vs the unit element FEG/AEG settings (refering to attack time, decay time, release time & depth)? Does the Overall Voice EG/EQ extend or override or compliment (take the max if either one) the unit element FEG/AEG setting?

2. As for the Time unit (in both FEG/AEG or EG/EQ), what is the unit used? Is it in 10th of a second? Are both FEG/AEG and EG/EQ using the same time unit? (I find that EG/EQ takes longer than the FEG/AEG by testing a single number on both.... i.e. 40 unit of Attack time in EG/EQ is longer than 40 unit of Attack time in FEG. I didn’t explicitly measure it though, probably just my feeling).

Thanks!!

For question 2 - don’t concern yourself with what the unit measurement
is..not important. Just change a parameter and see what the result is -
eventually you’ll get the vibe for what, for example, an AEG attack time of60 and initial level of 21 really translates to in reality.

In other words, don’t listen with your eyes…