Vodka,

I think you should chill on all that cuz ur really just going to make urself look bad at the end. The Motif XS still merks any other workstation at the same price even with its flaws. The Fantom G also got its flaws, as does the M3. New technology comes with flaws and kinks that always need to be worked out. LOOK AT TOYOTA!, very respected company over the years until this big Recall. So many features such as auto accelerate, and autobrake, and ass heaters and who knows what...sh*ts bound to hit the fan.

Yamaha has constantly been here to help us with all these kinks and Im sure yours will get worked as well. Just give it time and if its on their end, try to work around it until the next OS update.

Yea Chill out. We’ve all had issues at one time or another and Bad Mister has always come through. Badmouthing Yamaha on public forums is not going to solve your problem

Bad_Mister - 17 March 2010 02:29 PM

Recording arpeggio data OUT via MIDI is at the deeper end of the pool, and if you do not follow carefully the detailed instructions (page 42-43) it is very likely you will not meet with success. I’ll let you correct your own actions - but let’s just say you missed several very important steps.

Please see the following article in the Support area:
Working with the Motif-Rack XS Arpeggios

If you get stuck (again) post back here.

Hey Phil Clendeninn, don’t try to fool me, It’s not about recording arpeggios it’s about playing arpeggios accurately in sync to the midi clock. Listen to the File I attached: first part bad sync second how it should be. Please tell me if you can hear the difference.

motif-arp-midi-sync-problem02.mp3  (File Size: 334KB - Downloads: 187)

vodka - 16 March 2010 03:16 PM

Ok just for you:

01. make a new Cubase project
02. set tempo to 160
03. Switch On Metronome
04. Transport > Project Sync Setup > Midi Clock Destinations : tick Yamaha Motif XS-1
05. Add new midi Track
06 Assign motif rack
07. Make 4 Bars Loop
08. Insert a 4 Bars part into loop
09. Insert a note 4 long Bars At C3
10. Open Motif Rack
11. Hardware Utility > MIDI Sync > External
12. Close Hardware Utility
13. Init new Multi
14. Select first Part
15. Select ARP on the part
16. ARP > Sw (0n)
16. ARP > SW Hold > off
17. ARP > Voice With Arp (on)
18. ARP LIBRARY > Select Number 5614 for example
19. Press Play

Now you should hear the bad sync when you compare metronome and beat!

This is seriously an awful way to test the sync fidelity. Unless there is absolutely no playback latency, this test will not work. Like Bad Mister said, data being played back through the computer into a hardware piece will experience slight latency. This is true with any system. I don’t care how powerful anyone thinks their computer is, the data being sent is not instant. On top of this, you’re then resending midi data and recording it. With this method, there will ALWAYS be a delay in your recording. ALWAYS. You can test this method with ANY external midi device that has built in arps. You will get the same result every time. You can even test this with hardware sequencers.  Why do you think we have midi and MTC “offset”?  This really is not a debatable topic. there’s a very easy work around that people have been using for years. This is how it goes:

1) DO WHAT YOU’VE BEEN DOING, THEN SLIDE YOUR REGION ACCORDINGLY.

You really have to wonder why there aren’t a thousand of these posts. It’s because there’s nothing wrong with the hardware. What you’re complaining about is a natural anomaly in midi recording. we’ve all been dealing with it for years. Get over it and get your work done.

SuperPartyRobot - 19 March 2010 08:33 AM

This is seriously an awful way to test the sync fidelity. Unless there is absolutely no playback latency, this test will not work. Like Bad Mister said, data being played back through the computer into a hardware piece will experience slight latency.

No, you are completely wrong. Did you listen the file in my last post? For that Test I made a midi track where the metronome click is also played on the Motif simultaneously to the arpeggio track, so there is no audio latency involved, it’s all midi and directly recorded from the mains of the Motif. The problem seems to affect only the arpeggios, normal midi notes play accurately.

SuperPartyRobot - 19 March 2010 08:33 AM

there’s nothing wrong with the hardware. What you’re complaining about is a natural anomaly in midi recording. we’ve all been dealing with it for years.

No, I can’t ignore the fact that a Synth advertised like this:

The MOTIF-RACK XS features:
- Wide range of dynamic and authentic Voices - total of 1,152 Voices and 65 Drum Kits
- Powerful Arpeggio function - simultaneous playback of four types, total 6,633 available
- Five real-time Control Knobs, for adjusting the sound as you perform or record
- Convenient, intuitive editing of all settings from computer with MOTIF-RACK XS Editor
- Full integration with the popular Cubase series audio/MIDI recording software

has old fashion midi problems.

For me this is just a very bad implementation and does not fulfill all these advertised features satisfactory. I also own the Access Virus TI, they also do the integration over USB, and I can tell you guys, that it has absolutely no sync problems. So this tells me clearly, that it can be done much better. Maybe the Drivers need to be improved or perhaps the Firmware.
I’m wondering if there is a qualified Yamaha Engineer around in this forum, who understands what I’m talking about. Then the answers i got so far, were absolutely ridiculous.

vodka - 19 March 2010 11:24 AM

No, you are completely wrong. Did you listen the file in my last post? For that Test I made a midi track where the metronome click is also played on the Motif simultaneously to the arpeggio track, so there is no audio latency involved, it’s all midi and directly recorded from the mains of the Motif. The problem seems to affect only the arpeggios, normal midi notes play accurately.

You see, this is where it gets confusing. Where is the audio coming from for the click? Cubase or The Motif? The midi data triggering the click within Cubase is internal. It does not need to physically leave the computer and trigger an external module. This means the perceived audio for the click reaches your ears before the arpeggio. If it’s coming from the Motif, the delay is very slight. If the Motif uses a millisecond to trigger the arp does it really matter???

Sometimes you really need to sit back and appreciate the engineering in some of these things. you’re taking a single note and triggering something close to an entire sequence. To me that’s F’ing amazing....and besides, you’re recording into Cubase. I don’t understand why you can’t just record your midi or audio as it is and then slide it to where it needs to be? This seems like a very insignificant rant. what i mean by “insignificant” is insignificant to the big picture of getting your work done and getting records made.

Let me ask you a question,

Have you ever tried bouncing, importing and realigning audio tracks in applications like Protools LE? have ever you tried working in mixing and recording environments that do not support delay compensation? have you ever tried syncing audio and video equipment using SMPTE?

concerning the Motif sync issue, trust me when i say “you have it easy”.

SuperPartyRobot - 19 March 2010 01:06 PM

If it’s coming from the Motif, the delay is very slight. If the Motif uses a millisecond to trigger the arp does it really matter???

Yes you got it, the click is coming from the motif (as i described!!!!), it’s far more that a millisecond delay. I don’t know how you working but for me this unacceptable! I want to INTEGRATE these arpeggios in my productions with no hassle. They need to be in sync with my other stuff, that’s what i bought this device for! I wouldn’t say a word if Yamaha didn’t advertise the seamless integration! 

SuperPartyRobot - 19 March 2010 01:06 PM

Have you ever tried bouncing, importing and realigning audio tracks in applications like Protools LE? have ever you tried working in mixing and recording environments that do not support delay compensation? have you ever tried syncing audio and video equipment using SMPTE?

concerning the Motif sync issue, trust me when i say “you have it easy”.

I’ve been making music since Atari, i had many different Synths and Environments in these years. We’re now in 2010 and i just don’t want to waste my time anymore, ****ing around with old frumpy midi problems! Can you dig it?

Hello Yamaha Support, when you want to fix this sync Problems?

.

vodka - 19 March 2010 02:26 PM

We’re now in 2010 and i just don’t want to waste my time anymore, ****ing around with old frumpy midi problems! Can you dig it?

I can dig it! i’m just suggesting you focus your energy on getting your records done rather than spending your time addressing a problem that may not have a solution. Obviously the problem you’re experiencing is software related and it probably IS the Yamaha driver. BUT, Yamaha isn’t going to do anything about it today and i doubt they’ll even be able to give you an ETA for an update. what we CAN do today is search for a solution instead of ranting about it. You mentioned that the sync fidelity with your virus is perfect, meaning that the midi latency related to it’s driver is not noticeable. Have you tried using the virus as a midi thru to the rack? The rack can still be triggered via standard midi even if it’s in USB mode. This will allow you use the virus’ sync fidelity and still trigger the arps in “time”, as well as run the editor.

if i have the time tonight, i’ll borrow my friend’s XS rack and do a test with the standard midi ports to check for trigger delay to the arps. I’ll do the same test you did within Cubase but with a standalone external sequencer, pmost likely with my 3000. If the standard ports don’t exhibit the same delay then we may have found a temporary solution to your problem until Yamaha updates their drivers....if they ever do.

Yes of course Yamaha can’t fix this immediately. But they could at least admit that there is a problem, instead of playing dumb. This bad mister is driving me nuts, he is deliberately trying to ignore the fact that there is a flaw in the arpeggio engine. 
And yes, i really appreciate your help, but i already found a workaround for this problem. I won’t tell at this time, because then they think the problem is solved, which is absolutely not.

Okay..I have tried to use the Motif XS arps in Cubase 5 and have had much success. Til this point I haven’t been using them and wow..haha. Theres definitely a lot of hidden inspiration in there. I basically followed Bad_Mister’s advice in one of the first posts on how to set up the clocks to sync and “poof”, arps are all in sync no matter what tempo. I currently have it set to 160bpm and it is 100% in sync, so most likely the problem is on your end Vodka and not Yamaha’s.

One Question though please if anyone can help,
NVM..found it! Thanks again Bad_Mister for your help.

Recording Motif Arps to External Sequencer

That’s the article for the keyboard XS, here is the one for the Rack XS.

Working with Motif-Rack XS Drum Arpeggios

djlowkey - 21 March 2010 03:57 PM

Okay..I have tried to use the Motif XS arps in Cubase 5 and have had much success. Til this point I haven’t been using them and wow..haha. Theres definitely a lot of hidden inspiration in there. I basically followed Bad_Mister’s advice in one of the first posts on how to set up the clocks to sync and “poof”, arps are all in sync no matter what tempo. I currently have it set to 160bpm and it is 100% in sync, so most likely the problem is on your end Vodka and not Yamaha’s.

One Question though please if anyone can help,
NVM..found it! Thanks again Bad_Mister for your help.

Recording Motif Arps to External Sequencer

Yeah go learn and learn listen! But please don’t try to come up with some Bullshit here in this thread! From know on you on my ignore list trust me!

Bad_Mister - 21 March 2010 10:33 PM

That’s the article for the keyboard XS, here is the one for the Rack XS.

Working with Motif-Rack XS Drum Arpeggios

No it doesn’t help! You still don’t know what I’m talking about.
Yes Arps do sync, and I know exactly how it works! But they don’t sync 100% precisely, that’s the whole point!