I just bought the Motif Racks XS. I think the Sounds and Arpeggios are great but the Cubase Integration is very crappy compared to the virus ti for example. I just noticed that Arpeggios are out of sync when syncing device to Midi clock from Cubase. The settings for sync/save are very confusing. What is saved where and when. I just don’t get it.

How do I set this thing to save the current State together with the Cubase arrangement without affecting Presets on the device. Just like all other VST do?

Where is the option to create an empty Multi?

Why does it have more that one virtual midi port? I’m currently using Port 1 and 4, what is port 4 for?

I know that is possible to have audio via USB, why not do this for the Motif?

I just bought the Motif Racks XS. ...I just don’t get it.

Take your time, it is fairly obvious from your post that you just don’t get it. Take your time, you just bought it.

We’d be happy to help you.

I just noticed that Arps are out of sync when syncing device to Midi Clock from Cubase.
Cubase does not send MIDI clock without you setting it up, if you set it up and it is out of sync that would be trouble. But you don’t mention that you set Cubase to send MIDI clock. Let’s start with what version of Cubase you are using?

In general, you must go to TRANSPORT > PROJECT SYNCHRONIZATION SETUP… route MIDI CLOCK OUT to the DESTINATION = Motif-Rack XS

In the Motif-Rack XS you want to setup so that you are set to MIDI SYNC = external or auto ("auto" allows you to have the Motif-Rack XS arps run even when Cubase transport it stopped, useful when verifying or initially selecting arpeggios). Even when you do have it setup, whether or not it musically in time is still the responsibility of the player. That is, the Rack XS clock will run in sync with Cubase but the arpeggios depend on the player hitting the keys at the appropriate time (naturally).

We also don’t know whether you are using the “Motif-Rack XS Editor” with Studio Manager or the “Motif-Rack XS Editor VST” - we don’t know if you have installed the Motif-Rack XS Extensions.

Where is the option to Create an empty Multi?
Hold [MULTI] + [ENTER] for 1 second to instantly create an Initialized Multi

Why does it have more that one virtual midi port? I’m currently using 1 and 4 for what is port 4?
USB Port 1 - is for normal music communication (note-on, controller, tempo
USB Port 2 - is not used in the Rack unit
USB Port 3 - is for an external device connected to the 5-pin MIDI jacks on the back panel. The Rack XS becomes a MIDI interface for one external device when you set it to MIDI IN/OUT = USB or mLAN. For example, if you plugged a MIDI keyboard into the 5-pin MIDI jack while set to MIDI IN/OUT = USB, that keyboard would show up in cubase as “Motif-Rack XS Port 3”
USB Port 4 - is reserved for bi-directional and simultaneous communication between the software Editor and the hardware.

I know that is possible to have audio via USB, why not do this for the Motif?
At Yamaha we aimed a little higher. USB audio on most synths and mixers is stereo only. The Motif XS and Motif-Rack XS can use firewire, far more robust. By expanding your Motif-Rack XS with an optional mLAN16E2 gives you 16 audio bus outputs, 3 pairs of audio returns, plus 3 ports of MIDI communication down a single firewire connection. If all you require is a stereo digital output you can simply connect it via S/PDIF. It not a brag to say, no other synth module gives you the kind of connectivity you find in the Motif-Rack XS (not even close!)

Rather than guess please provide some basic information and we’d be happy to help you sort things out. If you are asking has anyone got this all working, the answer is YES… most folks get it going. Let us know.

Thanks for your quick answer.

Take your time, you just bought it.

Nowadays Cubase Plug ins have to be seamless intuitive and self-explanatory some parts of this integration are definitely not. I specially bought this device to have more time making music, instead of dealing with stupid manuals.

We’d be happy to help you.

thanks, i highly appreciate this

I just noticed that Arps are out of sync when syncing device to Midi Clock from Cubase.
Cubase does not send MIDI clock without you setting it up, if you set it up and it is out of sync that would be trouble. But you don’t mention that you set Cubase to send MIDI clock. Let’s start with what version of Cubase you are using?

We also don’t know whether you are using the “Motif-Rack XS Editor” with Studio Manager or the “Motif-Rack XS Editor VST” - we don’t know if you have installed the Motif-Rack XS Extensions.

I own Cubase 4 but I’m still using Cubase 3 because Cubase 4 sounds different and yes I’m using the internal editor.

In general, you must go to TRANSPORT > PROJECT SYNCHRONIZATION SETUP… route MIDI CLOCK OUT to the DESTINATION = Motif-Rack XS

i am sending midi clock and the arpeggio is working as expected. But it’s slightly out of sync, thats what I’m talking about. Please take a look at the attachment! This is a example where i recoded a arpeggio which was synced to midi clock.

Where is the option to Create an empty Multi?
Hold [MULTI] + [ENTER] for 1 second to instantly create an Initialized Multi

What does it exactly do, does it initialize the selected Multi on the device? How can i work with the Cubase editor only, leaving the presets on the device untouched? And when i save the Cubase arrangement automatically save also the Current Editor state?

I know that is possible to have audio via USB, why not do this for the Motif?
At Yamaha we aimed a little higher. USB audio on most synths and mixers is stereo only. The Motif XS and Motif-Rack XS can use firewire, far more robust. By expanding your Motif-Rack XS with an optional mLAN16E2 gives you 16 audio bus outputs, 3 pairs of audio returns, plus 3 ports of MIDI communication down a single firewire connection. If all you require is a stereo digital output you can simply connect it via S/PDIF. It not a brag to say, no other synth module gives you the kind of connectivity you find in the Motif-Rack XS (not even close!)

I think the control of the parameters shouldn’t go over midi, i think thats why it’s so slow and Arp is out of sync.
I wouldn’t mind some more analog outputs.
There is also nothing wrong with having 3 stereo outputs over USB for starting. Take a look at Access Virus TI, for me that’s the reference when it comes to Cubase integration. It’s straight forward intuitive and it behaves like a VST. Before i bought this Motif, i thought it would be a bit of a similar concept, but sadly it’s not.

Click thumbnail to see full-size image

The arp is not out of sync… you are late, the arp is consistent from start to finish… consistently behind the beat. Remember the arp does not start automatically it starts when YOU trigger the keys. If you are late the arp will be late, sorry, but its you.

You can either 1) play it again or 2) select all the notes (use your mouse and select them all, and drag any one of them to the nearest beat line and instantly you will see they are all ON-TIME!!!

How can i work with the Cubase editor only, leaving the presets on the device untouched? And when i save the Cubase arrangement automatically save also the Current Editor state?

That is exactly what this will do… When you initialize a Multi you are working with the current 1 Multi, you have not permanently changed the data, you are working in an edit buffer

You can initialize a multi on the front panel: [MULTI]+[ENTER]
or you can initialize a multi in the Editor: Select FILE > NEW… or go to EDIT > “Initialize Current Mixing”

This allows you to work in the current Edit Buffer without permanently changing the data in the Motif-Rack XS. You only change it permanently if you STORE the data. If you do not want to change the data in the hardware (Motif-Rack XS itself), simply take the EDITOR temporarily OFFLINE and then SAVE your Cubase Project.

You are using Cubase SX3 (2004) so you don’t get the benefit of all the new integration of functions introduced at Cubase 4.5 and later, sorry. What you see as “bad integration” therefore is just software from 2004 not taking advantage of the improvements made in the interim. The Rack XS came out in 2008. - so some of the things that might be confusing to you may, in fact, be cleared up if you move up to Cubase 4. At least then we can take your criticism about how it integrates more seriously (lol).

Bad_Mister - 15 March 2010 05:07 AM

The arp is not out of sync… you are late, the arp is consistent from start to finish… consistently behind the beat. Remember the arp does not start automatically it starts when YOU trigger the keys. If you are late the arp will be late, sorry, but its you.

In my setup, the arp is badly out of sync, yes it is! For my example i didn’t trigger the Arp by Hand, i placed the note that triggers the Arp at the beginning of the bar in the editor. When have it recorded it’s even worse.
Anyway, i will try with Cubase 4 and see if the problem remains, I’ll keep you posted

Bad_Mister - 15 March 2010 05:07 AM

How can i work with the Cubase editor only, leaving the presets on the device untouched? And when i save the Cubase arrangement automatically save also the Current Editor state?

That is exactly what this will do… When you initialize a Multi you are working with the current 1 Multi, you have not permanently changed the data, you are working in an edit buffer

You can initialize a multi on the front panel: [MULTI]+[ENTER]
or you can initialize a multi in the Editor: Select FILE > NEW… or go to EDIT > “Initialize Current Mixing”

This allows you to work in the current Edit Buffer without permanently changing the data in the Motif-Rack XS. You only change it permanently if you STORE the data. If you do not want to change the data in the hardware (Motif-Rack XS itself), simply take the EDITOR temporarily OFFLINE and then SAVE your Cubase Project.

“Initialize Current Mixing”, i found this before. But the option that i was missing was probably in the Setup-> Auto Sync Setting -> Current (On) (PC>Motif Rack XS) Auto Start (On). Now it’s loading the last state fine together with the Cubase file, nice one

By the way, what is global and voice sync for?

Bad_Mister - 15 March 2010 05:07 AM

You are using Cubase SX3 (2004) so you don’t get the benefit of all the new integration of functions introduced at Cubase 4.5 and later, sorry. What you see as “bad integration” therefore is just software from 2004 not taking advantage of the improvements made in the interim. The Rack XS came out in 2008. - so some of the things that might be confusing to you may, in fact, be cleared up if you move up to Cubase 4. At least then we can take your criticism about how it integrates more seriously (lol).

So you say that Yamaha Motif integration is not working properly in Cubase SX3? What great features am i missing?

In my setup, the arp is badly out of sync, yes it is! For my example i didn’t trigger the Arp by Hand, i placed the note that triggers the Arp at the beginning of the bar in the editor. When have it recorded it’s even worse.

Sorry, that could be. I have no idea what type of latency you are dealing with in your system. If it is so badly out of sync, and trust us, it is not that we don’t believe you but sending a MIDI note Out from your software and then recording the result coming back is clearly a test of your systems built in latency… which can vary from computer to computer - and how you have things setup.

Do regularly recorded tracks (non arps) playback correctly?

GLOBAL settings are those found when you go to FILE > HARDWARE UTILITY…

VOICE settings are when you are using the Editor in VOICE mode… just below FILE, EDIT, BULK, HELP you can set the mode: VOICE or MULTI. Also when VOICE is selected as an AUTO SYNC SETTING, when you open Cubase and set the STUDIO MANAGER to RECALL, it will recall the VOICE LIBRARY - that is, all 384 USER VOICES, and 32 USER Drum Kits in your Motif-Rack XS at the time you saved the Cubase Project.

So, for example, in a Cubase Project it is not always just 16 VOICES that you are using from the Motif-Rack XS, it is possible that somewhere during the composition there is a Program Change or several. The BULK > DATA SYNC option allows you to RECEIVE any or all of the USER VOICE banks currently in your Motif-Rack XS. These get bundled and stored in the Cubase (.CPR) Project file.

So if you have your Studio Manager preferences set so that when you open the .CPR file, you can have it restore not only the current MULTI (mix) you used, but all the UTILITY mode (Global) settings, and the entire VOICE Library that was in your Rack XS at the time of the session.

Do regularly recorded tracks (non arps) playback correctly?

yes absolutely. Recorded midi does playback absolutely tight.  My Computer: Q6600 CPU / X38 Chipset. I now gonna give it a try in Cubase 4, i really want to be able to trigger these Arpeggios in real time…

GLOBAL settings…
VOICE settings…

thanks, i now understand the concept. syncing voices is definitely not the option i need, it would anyway take way to long to load from a cpr.

I think the editor manual provided by Yamaha is really as clear as mud.

That’s where I learned it… oh well..

OK, i have now tested Arpeggio midi sync in Cubase 4 and Cubase 5 and the problem remains. I also tried to sync trough the physical midi port and the delay gets even worse. To illustrate what i exactly mean, i attached a Cubase 5 Project with 3 Midi Tracks:

1. Track Arpeggio
2. Track Arpeggio Recorded
3. Track Recorded Arpeggio Quantized

I’m curious if you guys get the same sync problem.
I also attached a audio File where you can hear the misery.

motif-arp-midi-sync-problem.mp3  (File Size: 188KB - Downloads: 181)

motif-arp-midi-sync-problem.zip  (File Size: 179KB - Downloads: 63)

I repeat my statements… late could be a function of your systems built-in latency. I’m not sure what I’m supposed to gleen from the attached data. You give not details about how you generated this data. It is just some data… please tell the story.

Just load the project and you’ll see.

1. Track Triggers the Arpeggio
2. Track Recorded Arpeggio
3. Track Recorded Arpeggio Quantized ( How it should be)

And by the way if i don’t get this to work properly, i have no problem to promote this flaw in all major Producers forums. Stop putting lipstick on the pig! I assume thats what you are being payed for.

If you want some feedback on this issue please tell me how you generated the data. I played the data, I would not ask if I knew what you did. It certainly would be helpful to know HOW you generated the data. I’ll ask again: Can you please post your method. What if it is something YOU are doing, is that even remotely a possibility? If not, then just say so.

Ok just for you:

01. make a new Cubase project
02. set tempo to 160
03. Switch On Metronome
04. Transport > Project Sync Setup > Midi Clock Destinations : tick Yamaha Motif XS-1
05. Add new midi Track
06 Assign motif rack
07. Make 4 Bars Loop
08. Insert a 4 Bars part into loop
09. Insert a note 4 long Bars At C3
10. Open Motif Rack
11. Hardware Utility > MIDI Sync > External
12. Close Hardware Utility
13. Init new Multi
14. Select first Part
15. Select ARP on the part
16. ARP > Sw (0n)
16. ARP > SW Hold > off
17. ARP > Voice With Arp (on)
18. ARP LIBRARY > Select Number 5614 for example
19. Press Play

Now you should hear the bad sync when you compare metronome and beat!

I feel him on this because I still havnt been able to get arps to work properly in my Cubase 5 either using my XS 8. I dont use arps that often for now so I was going to wait on posting it, but the XS definitely has Sync issues. The Common LFO still does not Sync properly at all either even with the latest OS update that claimed to fix it(especially in Cubase). I would also like to know why Yamaha didnt decide to include the option to sync Element LFOs as well. There is also no proper sync in specific time based FX like the Wahwah. The ES has these wah guitars that play perfect in Sync, yet the XS has similar ones that do play in “sync”, but the start point for the wah constantly changes so it never sounds right. I would really like Yamaha to compare their common LFO with any other Triton, Fantom, or anything and hear what sync should sound/be like.

Either way...I LOVE MY XS...would love to see all the kinks just get worked out. I will go ahead and try to see if I can get the arps working with the info from this thread.

Oh holy crap, seems that this is really serious issue, also the 4K top of the line synths are affected by this major design flaws.

So this goes out to the Yamaha Support Staff: When you wanna fix this? Or do you want me to make this public in all big producers forums? Please let me know immediately, and stop whitewashing!

Recording arpeggio data OUT via MIDI is at the deeper end of the pool, and if you do not follow carefully the detailed instructions (page 42-43) it is very likely you will not meet with success. I’ll let you correct your own actions - but let’s just say you missed several very important steps.

Please see the following article in the Support area:
Working with the Motif-Rack XS Arpeggios

If you get stuck (again) post back here.

LtnPercAI4.zip  (File Size: 206KB - Downloads: 84)