hello everybody!

i’m relatively new to motif and midi and so on and have little troubles using my xs8 with my pc (win 7 64bit). because mlan doesn’t work on 64bit (it seems mainly due to driver-rights, as i read on some forums), i turned to usb.
does work well with cubase ai4 (the bundled one). i can play, cubase will record my keys and play them. fine!
next step: record my tunes to the pc.
i connected the digital out from motif xs to the s/pdif-in on my soundblaster x-fi music, but the x-fi tells me: “the signal is unknown or invalid” or something like that. soundblaster has no special s/pdif-input-settings like m-audio, so i skipped that part. (if somebody uses x-fi, it would be nice to help me though ;-))
next step: i connected the assignable outputs to the line-in of the x-fi. no signal. it seems the motif does only send a signal either to the main-ouputs (which are connected to my mixer, for i’m a dj by trade) or the assignables (per voice). is that true?
so i’m sitting since 8:00pm (now it’s 2:30am) and no light at the end of the tunnel. it’s frustrating :-( has anybody any ideas to help me?

greetings from austria
f.

If possible, check that SPDIF has correct sample and bitrate set in your pc.

Assignable out is not the same as Main out.
And yes you are correct, something routed to Main out will not appear on Assignable out (and the other way around).
Effects are also handled differently.

/M

i’m relatively new to motif and midi and so on and have little troubles using my xs8 with my pc (win 7 64bit). because mlan doesn’t work on 64bit (it seems mainly due to driver-rights, as i read on some forums)

Well, welcome to the forum where you can get some good information, for a change (lol).

You own a Motif XS8 and can use the Yamaha Steinberg FW driver (not the old mLAN Driver).

Yamaha Steinberg FW Driver is designed to work with the Motif XS (2007) and more recent products.
You would only use the old mLAN Driver if you have a legacy piece of gear like the 01X (2003), 0-series mixer with MY16-mLAN (2003), DM-series mixer with MY16-mLAN (2003), i88X (2004), or Motif ES/S90 ES with mLAN16E (2003).

If you do not own any of these pieces of gear, then you should not be using the old mLAN driver… You can use the new Yamaha Steinberg Firewire driver… which provides 16 audio bus outputs, 3 pair of audio returns, and 4 ports of bi-directional MIDI communication between your Motif XS and your computer on a single firewire cable… and is compatible with Windows 7 64-bit

You mention you have XS8 - so download the Yamaha Steinberg Firewire Driver for you computer’s OS and get into the world of multiple audio output + MIDI down a firewire cable. Here is a link:

Yamaha Steinberg Firewire Driver version 1.5.2 for Windows7/Vista 64-bit

And once you are up and running please return to those other forums and let others know. Rumors and false information tends to live forever on the internet…

http://www.yamahasynth.com is your Yamaha official Download site, it is a good site to bookmark (in addition to this one).

Cubase AI4 is a 32-bit application (but you should be able to run it on Windows 7) - the YSFW driver for Windows 7 64-bit has been released since February 19, 2010 - so you may be just the victim of old information.

You will want to use firewire (the Soundblaster card is not a recommended audio interface for what you are trying to do… check with your Cubase documentation - I’m not saying you couldn’t get it to work _ I’m not really sure about, I have no experience with it… but I’d hate to see you miss out the firewire connectivity that is built-in on your XS8 based on some bad (or old) information you received on another forum.

Let us know.

hello!

first: thanks for the fast answers!

@ multi76: i set the x-fi to 24bit and 44kHz, as stated in the manual.

@ bad_mister: so that’s the clue: don’t install fw-driver AND mlan-tools. ok. did so: cubase (studio manager as well) reckons the new connection (after changing the settings on the motif, of course) and shows the same behaviour as usb-driven: records keys, plays back through motif-main-output (into the mixer). so far so good.

i tried to add an “audio-channel” (suppose this would be the name in an english cubase) where i can record the cubase-output-played-by-motif back again into cubase (that’s the point, wehere a dj’s mind quits lol) and the meter shows nil. i tried a few input/ouput settings in the channel (Main vs Main, 1/2 vs Main, Main vs FW, asf.) still no reaction on the meter. i think there’s some little tweak (perhaps in audio-routing?) preventing my success.

but there’s another major problem: after installing the fw-driver win7 crashed every time (now the third time as i’m writing :-D) using cubase with a nice blue-screen. real silly trigers: resizing the main windows in cubase, starting explorer by WIN+E, pressing the [1]-button an my motif. unfortunately the system is so fast, i can hardly read the real message, but it states something about “driver mainframe” or something like that. i’m working as an admin and i didn’t see a blue-screen since winxp. that’s not good.

the fw-hardware is recognized as “AT&T;/Lucent IEEE1394 FireWire Controller”. could this be the problem? yamahasynth.com states 3 nec’s which are definately not working.

any ideas?

kr
f.

edit: i really think there’s a problem with the fw-controller. (after 2 more crashes) i played a tune (5 channels) for the first time with fw-driver installed and cubase was skipping notes! so i increased the latency to maximum, that’s about 47 ms (i want my x-fi back :-( it has 1 ms latency). effect: cubase is stilling skipping notes, but didn’t crash for at least one hour (that’s a new record)! and: i managed to record an audio-channel with the motif-playback-output-input-back-into-cubase-thingy (that’s still quite something i don’t unterstand, although i read some manuals here). i can export it to wave: great! at -24dB peak at the drums? not great!

here are 2 new “questions”: 1. the firewire-latency-crash-problem (i think that’s connected) is to be solved by new firewire-hardware, ok. but: any recommendations?
2. the recorded audio-track is a “direct-digital-recording” (like s/pdif)?

It is really very difficult to follow your post. Bottomline we know you had problems before, but what is the current situation?

We are not certain at all what you are doing with S/PDIF connection. Or why you are using that at all.

It is very difficult to make any recommendations about your computer (crashes, latency, etc.) when we are not certain about what it is (Windows 7, 64-bit, yes, but we know little else).

When you are using your Motif XS via Yamaha Steinberg FW driver you connect the analog L/R audio outputs to your monitoring system (be that a pair of powered monitors or a mixer connected to speakers). The Yamaha Steinberg FW driver will communicate back and forth with your computer on 16 audio output buses, 3 pairs of audio returns, and multiple ports of MIDI:

Click thumbnail to see full-size image

i’m sorry if my posts seem a little confused. there’s so many (new) info to comprehend and to tell…

status quo:
* pc and motif connected via firewire (it works, many thanks to bad_mister)
* cubase up and running using fw-mlan-in/out
+ i can record keys
+ play back multiple channels
+ “sample” mlan-main-output to audio-track
+ export the audio-track to a wav-file
+ that’s 100% i need!
* but pc crashes every time using cubase to a nice blue-screen stating something about “driver-framework”
* trigger-events for crashes: window-resizing, opening new windows, pressing keys or buttons on the motif, asf…
* i noticed, if i increase the latency of the yamaha-asio to max (= 47ms), cubase (respectively the pc) crashes later. e.g. it did run yesterday for 2 hrs straight
* vice versa: at latency 6ms, cubase crashes after max 5 minutes
* cubase did not crash using usb
* s/pdif is not in use (i’m using mlan :-))
* configuration:
+ asus m3n hd/hdmi board with onboard fw: “AT&T;/Lucent IEEE1394 (PHY: Agere LFW3226/3227)” (as reported from everest)
+ amd 64 x2 3.2 GHz
+ 4GB RAM DDR-2 800
+ GF 280 GTX + GF 8600 GT
+ sounblaster x-fi music (can do asio 2.0 with 1 ms latency)
+ win 7 64bit
+ cubase ai4 4.5.2 + extensions
+ YSFW 1.5.2.0
+ motif xs 8 v1.55 + fw v1.07

my assumption:
the onboard firewire-controller is incompatible or not good enough for fast and stable working. therefore i think i need a new one.

the questions:
* which firewire-hardware do you recommend for “simple” connecting?
i don’t need a studio-type rack-mount firewire/dsp-superbox (for now). in my surroundings, there’s nobody with a high-quality synth as motif xs, who i can ask. and you here the pro’s, so please make a recommendation.

* what i haven’t found out by now: the quality of the cubase-sampled mlan-main-output is a pure digital signal or is it simply a sampling of the amplified analogue-signal which normally goes to a speaker?
i know from dj-ing that amplified analogue-signals which are sampled do have nasty background noises from the amps, you don’t want to hear.

hope that brightens things up. sorry again for confusing posts!

kr
f.

formenel - 12 March 2010 01:21 PM

stating something about “driver-framework”

Sounds like potential of unstable OS or some driver corruption to me from your ‘crash’ description.

I’m running Win7-64 bit with the v1.5.2 Windows 7 Yamaha Steinberg FW Driver and the X8. All runs well now, but I had some initial issues with firewire chipset compatibility. I didn’t get a crash condition, but my IEEE1394 chip set was an issue.

I threw in an old IEEE1394 card to ensure it was compatible with the 64 bit drivers and all now works well enough.

Have a look at this site http://www.yamahasynth.com/downloads/drivers_software/synthesizers/motif_xs/driver/ and your chipset (AT&T;/Lucent IEEE1394 (PHY: Agere LFW3226/3227) is not listed.  Could be worth poking at that.

The rest of your PC gear looked adequate, except the Soundblaster card. I wouldn’t be using it for audio production. The mLAN audio is great for simple connections.

I’m also going to recommend the investment into Cubase 5, if you’re going to invest in 64 bit technology. Don’t handicap yourself out of the gate, imho.

It’s not that on-board FW is any worse than other options, it’s about being compatible with the chipset and drivers for your 64 bit OS. Get a card with a compatible chipset and throw it in your PC. You will achieve a digital signal with FW into Cubase.

cheers,

From your description about the causes of crashing, I do not know why you conclude it is the FW card. Pressing buttons on the Motif, resizing windows, these have nothing at all to do with the FW card and are more than likely something to do with your configuration.

I’m sorry but I don’t have all the information I need on running Cubase AI4 on Windows 7/64-bit computer, but I’ll do what checking I can. I believe you have to run it as a 32-bit application. You may want to check with your local Steinberg support _ I’ll also try and find out what you have to do… but the weekend has already begun here in the US

Before you throw out or blame your FW card, let’s make sure it is not a configuration problem with Cubase AI4 and Windows 7 - which is a mismatch to be sure…

Bad_Mister - 12 March 2010 04:45 PM

From your description about the causes of crashing, I do not know why you conclude it is the FW card. Pressing buttons on the Motif, resizing windows, these have nothing at all to do with the FW card and are more than likely something to do with your configuration.

tbone - 12 March 2010 04:38 PM

I’m running Win7-64 bit with the v1.5.2 Windows 7 Yamaha Steinberg FW Driver and the X8. All runs well now, but I had some initial issues with firewire chipset compatibility. I didn’t get a crash condition, but my IEEE1394 chip set was an issue.
Have a look at this site http://www.yamahasynth.com/downloads/drivers_software/synthesizers/motif_xs/driver/ and your chipset (AT&T;/Lucent IEEE1394 (PHY: Agere LFW3226/3227) is not listed. 

(for both quotes) I think that’s the problem, because it’s a fact: using usb produces no crashes, using firewire produces crashes. dot.

tbone - 12 March 2010 04:38 PM

The rest of your PC gear looked adequate, except the Soundblaster card. I wouldn’t be using it for audio production.

many people say, “don’t use soundblaster, that’s crap”. why this? before cubase, i’ve been using fl studio via soundblaster-asio with over 200 voices at one time using soundfonts and software-synths and never had any problem at all. but that’s something for another thread, i think ;-) let’s stick to win7 & firewire.

Bad_Mister - 12 March 2010 04:45 PM

Before you throw out or blame your FW card, let’s make sure it is not a configuration problem with Cubase AI4 and Windows 7 - which is a mismatch to be sure…

i have many 32bit-apps running smoothly, i don’t think that’s the problem. and: i did the configuration step-by-step as shown on motifator.com, so it has to be correct! ;-)

i contacted microsoft-support, for interpreting the memory-dump-files. i’ll come back, when i know more.

kr
f.

You have the XS8 which has a mLAN sound card built in. Using this device, over the SB would provide superior features and functionality.

But hey, to each his own.  You seem to have it all under control. (~;

good luck.

tbone - 14 March 2010 03:28 PM

You have the XS8 which has a mLAN sound card built in. Using this device, over the SB would provide superior features and functionality.

i’m sorry, my english is not so good to unsterstand, if you meant this seriously or not… or did i say something wrong?

tbone - 14 March 2010 03:28 PM

You seem to have it all under control.

apparently not, that’s why i’m asking silly questions :-D

Built-in sound cards (the ones that come with computers) are not on the same level with the mLAN/Firewire audio interface. While Soundblaster is a standard for playing games and basic computer sound needs, recording audio (like with Cubase or any other DAW) and doing MIDI is quite a bit more demanding. So in general, I believe what tbone was saying is that Soundblaster is not recommended for what you are attempting. There is an entire industry that offers alternatives to the cards that come with computers. These are typically recommended by the software companies that build professional audio/MIDI recording software.

Cards like the built in audio cards are designed to use the computer’s own speakers… in general when doing audio you want to us an external interface and better speakers than what typically come with computers.

Hey..

what version of Cubase are you using? I have the same setup as you, but had similar issues before using the Retail version of cubase 5.

Remember that the 64 bit version of cubase as of now is still buggy. Use the 32 bit version because it will give you less head aches. I dont have the link, but head over to the cubase forums and read the whole debacle on 5.1.1 update. If your using cubase Ai4 make sure you have the latest one and make sure its 32 bit.

I think Bad_Mister’s advice to contact your local Steinberg support desk may be the next step if your trying to salvage the installation. You have a lot of variables in your setup running AI4 under Win7-64 and they will have the best database to assist you.  I don’t think this is a solid foundation to start with and teasing out information in a forum will be frustrating. Unless of course others jump in with similar config and experience.

Given you have 4GB of RAM, there really isn’t much advantage to having a 64 bit OS here either. I might initally recommend going back to 32bit OS and avoid as much conflict as possible if you’re going to stick with AI4. It would probably be the most compatible with your other software you have also.

If you’re going to stay on the 64bit path, then upgrade to Cubase 5 sooner than later.

I agree.

I agree, too. But I’m sticking with 64bit, because more RAM is yet to come, since this machine isn’t only for cubasing.

Here’s the update from Microsoft-Support, as promised: all BSODs are caused by 1394ohci.sys after “Module load completed but symbols could not be loaded for yfwbus.sys”.

So basically Cubase is not the reason.

Next I’m trying to get a firewire-card, which is officially supported by Yamaha.

I’ll come back with results, if I may.

kr
f.