I have the latest YSFW driver installed and am trying to record 16 tracks in song mode from the XS8 to Sonar...All I get is a stereo track. Using ‘Xcellent Session’ as an example trying to fix this issue)

When I set Audio INPUTS on Cakewalk to Selective track inputs Nothing is coming from the Motif in Song Mode

How do I set theotif to send tracks individually. It seems to want to send only the MAIN stereo track as audio… I

ASIO drive number 2 is not shown on the list of drivers…

Utility is set to FW…

Manual Pages 265-266… you must set the Output Select Assignment of the individual tracks… imho, this is easiest to do in the XS Editor…

First, let’s start by stating that 16 MIDI tracks in your Motif XS does not necessarily equal 16 Audio tracks in your DAW.
MIDI is not audio.
MIDI has never been heard.
MIDI is a series of coded messages that represent the music… in a similar fashion to how the holes punched in a roll of paper ‘represent’ the music to an old style Player Piano. YOu must have the roll of paper inserted in the Player Piano for it to interpret the coded messages and turn it back into audible music.

MIDI data must be returned to the Motif XS tone engine and it will interpret it and turn it back into audio.

What does this have to do with my first statement? The MIDI data that is triggering the sounds of the Motif XS can be stored on MIDI tracks, the data then is sent to the XS tone engine (there are 16 PARTS, one PART typically per MIDI channel)… you must route the individual PARTS of the Motif XS MIXING setup to an OUTPUT bus.

The Firewire output of the Motif XS is a 16 audio bus system. A bus, in audio terms, is a connection that can carrry a one or more signals from one place to another. The word “bus” is not complicated, much like a city bus travles a particular route from point A to point B and can carry one or more passengers on that route, the audio bus travels for Point A (the XS) to Point B (your DAW) on a particular path. You can assign one or more signals onto a bus.

If all you recorded was a stereo track, this is likely because all the individual PARTS of your MIXING setup were routed to the L/R (main) outputs. All Parts, naturally, default to the L/R output assignment as this allows you to hear them through the System Effects, Master Effects, Master EQ and the main output. If you wish to record a PART to a separate audio track, you must assign it to a discreet output bus. The reason to record something separately is if you are going to process it separately. By routing it to an assignable output your remove it from the main stereo mix and send it on a discreet output bus to the DAW.

We posted a tutorial that takes you though not only the process of routing the signals but the all important thought process of *why* you would route something to an individual (firewire) output. I will quote from that tutorial here:

“When you route a PART to an individual OUTPUT (assignable mLAN output) it is removed from the SYSTEM. The reason you route something to an individual assignable output in the first place is so that you can process it differently. That would be the reason. If you are not going to process this signal separately, you gain nothing really from routing it to a separate audio output.”

The 16 audio buses can be seen in the attached graphic below.
You assign a PART to an audio bus output as follows:
Press [MIXING]
Press [EDIT]
Press the Track Select button [1]-[16] to select the PART
Press [F1] VOICE
Press [SF2] OUTPUT
The parameter OUTPUT SELECT gives you the options to route this PART to either an analog or digital output. You will see the following:
L/R = the main left/right outputs (this represents both the digital stereo output and the analog stereo output)
asL/R = the analog assignable outputs on the back panel
asL = analog assignable output left
asR = analog assignable output right
m1/2 = Firewire 1 and 2 as a stereo pair
m3/4, m5/6, m7/8, m9/10, m11/12, m13/14 = firewire stereo pairs
m1, m2, m3, m4, m5, m6, m7, m8, m9, m10, m11, m12, m13, m14 = firewire outputs mono

You see while MIDI is never stereo or mono, the data that it triggers can be. So for example, say one of your Motif XS Parts is the “Full Concert Grand” piano Voice, if you are going to record that as a separate audio track, you will probably want to record it in full stereo. If you sum it to mono, you will get a boxy pinched sound, if you record only one side, you get a, well, you get one side of the piano. So you probably want to record it in stereo.

What about drums? You can assign individual drums to firewire outputs, this is done more often than recording each PART individually. So from a drum kit you can assign the KICK drum to a mono firewire output (say m1) and then the SNARE drum to a mono firewire output (say m2) and the toms to a stereo pair (say m3/4) and the cymbals to a stereo pair (say m5/6)… maybe percussion instruments to their own stereo pairing (say m7/8)

Yes, individual drum and percussion sounds can be routed from within a DRUM KIT to mLAN outputs. So 1 MIDI track (the one containing your Drum Kit can wind up generating multiple audio track… it depends on what you need to do.

The bass guitar might be mono (say m9)
The lead guitar might be mono (say m10)
The B3 is using the Rotary Speaker - if you are not going to record the Rotary Speaker in stereom, why bother? so say (m11/12)
etc., etc. The decisions about what gets recorded to separate audio tracks is really session dependent.

So you can see, easily 16 Tracks of MIDI could turn into 22 audio tracks or more, it is hard to say… I’ve had projects where it was a lot more than that (30 or more). And I’ve done projects where it is a lot less than 16. It all depends on what you are going to do with the individual audio track.

It makes little sense to simply transfer a PART to a separate audio track then do nothing with it. Unless you have some VST Plug-in Effect or something specific you want to process the PART with, you have to ask yourself what do I gain by doing so.

Click thumbnail to see full-size image

Thanks for your very detailed reply. I was able to send MIDI tracks from a pattern chain to Sonar seperating tracks. When I tried to send audio it was ending up one one track...So I tried Song mode ...same thing MIDI good Audio stereo…

Set the Motif to asR&L;I think that will solve the issue.

Not sure why there is no Channel 2 listed in the audio outs.....

Thanks again’

Thanks for your very detailed reply. I was able to send MIDI tracks from a pattern chain to Sonar seperating tracks. When I tried to send audio it was ending up one one track...So I tried Song mode ...same thing MIDI good Audio stereo

Set the Motif to asR&L;I think that will solve the issue.

asL/R is analog (and is the only output assignment NOT available via Firewire!)

“Not sure why there is no Channel 2 listed in the audio outs.....”

Not sure what you are talking about ???

OK I realized I have to assign outputs from the MIX screen and have done so. I managed to get audio sent to separate tracks in Sonar but it is random as in Sonar the ASIO driver input channels read:
“

Only Odd Numbered Selections such as

LEFT YAMAHA sTEINBERG FW ASIO MOTIF XS8 1
RIGHT YAMAHA sTEINBERG FW ASIO MOTIF XS8 1
STEREO YAMAHA sTEINBERG FW ASIO MOTIF XS8 1 - 3/5/7/9/11/13

From 1-13 Stereo ,right,left for a total of 39 audio inputs not counting the MAIN

If I assign the output from Motif track 1 to ‘m1&2;’
Track 2 to say ‘m3’
Track 3 to ‘m4’

How do I know Which ASIO DRIVER INPUT to use as in one case there is no input “m4” as all the Mlan inputs are odd numbers and listed as R/L or Stereo pairs (I understand how to output a stereo track and set an input to Stereo). I just don;t know WHICH numbered input 1-13 to use. Maybe it doesn’t matter as long as they are all different.

I have a pretty good grasp on the MIDI setup and understand that MIDI tracks may not have the same track number as the corresponding audio track. (having a TYROS 3 makes one a MIDI expert to get that unit playing as multi-timberal unit, LOL)

Ideally it would be nice to send the MIDI information (if 16 tracks or less) AND the audio from creations originating on the MOTIF and have them line up.  Track 1 audio = Track 1 MIDI etc… I understand the extra track aspect of separating drum parts out and how that would interfere with a consistent 1-16 MIDI/AUDIO track recording....

I guess I am still not sure how to set the inputs up in Sonar so I KNOW which MOTIF track will be going where. How to correlate “m4 with LEFT YAMAHA sTEINBERG FW ASIO MOTIF XS8 1-13
RIGHT YAMAHA sTEINBERG FW ASIO MOTIF XS8 1-13
STEREO YAMAHA sTEINBERG FW ASIO MOTIF XS8 1-13

Alos as an aside the waveforms that are generated are very small although the volume seems ok. The faders are up on the Motif.

Thanks..for your patience..

Sorry but Sonar has a “unique” (rather strange) way of dealing with inputs. The channels are all ODD numbers with a LEFT and RIGHT channel. Then there are odd/even pairs where the ODD channel is LEFT and the EVEN channel is RIGHT. You will need to check your Sonar documentation but as I recall they do something like this:

Left Yamaha Steinberg – Motif XS8 01 = not applicable
Right Yamaha Steinberg – Motif XS8 01 = not applicable
Stereo Yamaha Steinberg – Motif XS8 01 = L/R main (System Output)

Left Yamaha Steinberg – Motif XS8 03 = m1
Right Yamaha Steinberg – Motif XS8 03 = m2
Stereo Yamaha Steinberg – Motif XS8 03 = m1/2

Left Yamaha Steinberg – Motif XS8 05 = m3
Right Yamaha Steinberg – Motif XS8 05 = m4
Stereo Yamaha Steinberg – Motif XS8 05 = m3/4

Left Yamaha Steinberg – Motif XS8 07 = m5
Right Yamaha Steinberg – Motif XS8 07 = m6
Stereo Yamaha Steinberg – Motif XS8 07 = m5/6

Left Yamaha Steinberg – Motif XS8 09 = m7
Right Yamaha Steinberg – Motif XS8 09 = m8
Stereo Yamaha Steinberg – Motif XS8 09 = m7/8

Left Yamaha Steinberg – Motif XS8 11 = m9
Right Yamaha Steinberg – Motif XS8 11 = m10
Stereo Yamaha Steinberg – Motif XS8 11 = m9/10

Left Yamaha Steinberg – Motif XS8 13 = m11
Right Yamaha Steinberg – Motif XS8 13 = m12
Stereo Yamaha Steinberg – Motif XS8 13 = m11/12

Left Yamaha Steinberg – Motif XS8 15 = m13
Right Yamaha Steinberg – Motif XS8 15 = m14
Stereo Yamaha Steinberg – Motif XS8 15 = m13/14

Let us know… its been a couple of years since I opened Sonar. And I’ve never actually seen how it deals with the YSFW driver.

AH yes thats what I was looking for....I will experiment with those coorelations and let the board know.

I Was not sure if it was Sonar’s recognition of the drivers or the YSFW.

You are correct in the way the inputs are listed in Sonar.

Thanks…

Sonar and Mlan or YSFW Driver

For the benefit of anyone who searches for this, This is what I found:

The correlations listed by Bad_Mister are correct and they line up with Sonar in that manner…

The thing I found in Sonar that will make this much easier is.....

YOU CAN NAME THE ASIO INPUT TRACKS ANYTHING YOU WANT....Thereis a check off box “use friendly names” which in this case will be the Mlan designations

As usual Thanks for the replies and Yamaha Support

I sell this stuff I really need to know it....We don’t stock the Motif though because most buyers of the high end workstations as opposed to high end arrangers tend to come into the store to check them out then buy them on the Internet to save the tax. Took us a year to sell ONE Motif XS8!IN that time we would sell 5 CP300s and 25 S900s and a few Tyros.  The new S90XS is a nice board as well. We are trying them out. We are in an older lower population resort market so the older people are more inclined to purchase in store and they like Clavinovas and portable arrangers. 

Tony T was in a few weeks ago and was supposed to get me onboard with Cubase 5...Still waiting for the SW. He knows how much of an aversion I had had in earlier dealings with Steinberg’s copy protection schemes years ago before taking a Pt Job at a music store that sells everything from Yamaha Grands with 400 guitars on the walls...a one owner “Guitar Center”

Glad that works… it’s been a few years since I’ve had a opportunity to look at Sonar… so it was a guess, but an educated guess. Good to know that you can name the ports, that makes it much better. Great information, thanks!

Just FYI - with Cubase, when you install the Motif XS Extension this is one of the things it does for the user… it substitutes the Motif XS port names thus making it easy to know where you are routing something.

Thanks for the feedback - keep up the good work!