Hello! I need help - this is not the first time I encounter with problem and dont know the solution.

When composing a song or pattern, an addition of some new tracks causes strange lugs in tempo while listening the arrangement. It sounds like if Motif can’t produce all the sounds and fails to keep the particular tempo. The slowdown happens some ticks before the measure beat (weak or strong).

I doubt its about polyphony cause I use in this example only few tacks…

Please listen the attached sketch where you can hear whats going on with my Motif… If this is uncureable I’ll have to say good-bue to my Motif because I encounter this problem not the fist time.

Thank’s to everyone who can help me in advance!

lug-example.mp3  (File Size: 657KB - Downloads: 64)

Welcome.
I never heard this before.
Could you describe your installation?

;JOOP!

sciuriware - 21 February 2010 11:30 PM

Could you describe your installation?

Hello! Do you mean the Motif OS version? I suppose it’s the very first version cause I didnt install the new one (I have no Smart Media Card).

upd. I checked the OS version - Firm is 1.06

Cables, mixers, DAW’s .....

sciuriware - 22 February 2010 03:33 AM

Cables, mixers, DAW’s .....

All I said is about Yamaha Motif ES 6.

If you find the tempo lagging, common causes are:
_ too much controller data in the track - you can tell you have too much controller data by looking at the EVENT LIST. Select a track to which you have recorded data, Press [EDIT]. Take a look at the recorded data.
_ Too much sustain pedal use…

Another common problem:
_ Unnecessary data in the track
Often AFTERTOUCH in particular. If you are not using Aftertouch you definitely want to filter this controller. You will see a lot messages in the track for “CAT” = Channel AfterTouch.

If the Voice on the track is not using Aftertouch specifically you can use the ERASE EVENT Job to remove this data. The normal default condition of the Yamaha sequencers is to filter AFTERTOUCH - Yamaha feels that if you want to use, it is the exception not the rule, you will activate it, record it, then set the FILTER back ON. From SONG or PATTERN mode
Press [UTILITY]
Press [F3] SEQ
Press [SF2] FILTER
Clear the BOX in the IN column for “ChAT”

Excessive use of volume, filter, panning, and other controllers can cause the tempo to be sluggish. There is a JOB called THIN OUT .. and as you might have guessed its purpose is to remove CONTROLLER messages.

If you are, for example sweeping a filter or raising or lowering the volume of a PART, turning a knob can leave a lot of controller data. When in fact, it does not require that much data to effect the (audible) musical change you are going for. A Fade out in volume could use 127 events from start to finish… to the ear thinning this out so it only contains less than half the number events can be just as affective to the ear.

Panning something from left to right could take 127 events from hard left to hard right, when in fact it does not take near that many event so make it sound like a smooth movement.

It is like film (or better cartoons), where individual snapshots/drawings are quickly shown to the eye… at just 30frames per second your eye totally buys into the smooth movement. You don’t need all the resolution in the world to accomplish fluid movement. Same goes for the ear and controller data.

How much to THIN OUT the controller data is up to you.

Press [EDIT]
Press [F3] EVENT
Select THIN OUT

Bad_Mister - 22 February 2010 09:33 AM

If you find the tempo lagging, common causes are:
_ too much controller data in the track - you can tell you have too much controller data by looking at the EVENT LIST. Select a track to which you have recorded data, Press [EDIT]. Take a look at the recorded data.
_ Too much sustain pedal use…

Another common problem:
_ Unnecessary data in the track
Often AFTERTOUCH in particular. If you are not using Aftertouch you definitely want to filter this controller. You will see a lot messages in the track for “CAT” = Channel AfterTouch.

Thank you for your attempt to help me… I have discovered all these suggestions before but they are not the reason. I noticed that this lags happen when I add for instance 1-2 tracks with strings and record some chords on them. So when two-three tracks with 3 different “string ensembe” voices start to play, Motif starts lagging with tempo… I tested all tacks to have no additional controller data such as CAT or Volume change or Brightness - I cleared them all but that doesnt work.

Is it normal for Motif?

And one more trouble - in Pattern mode, when I want to change voice for any track which already contains some midi data, the original voice returns when I quit Mixing mode (I store all changes as usually and in Song mode that works fine). So once I have chosen a voice for track and recorded some sequence in Pattern mode I cant change this voice in Mix mode anymore…

santea - 22 February 2010 10:02 AM

Thank you for your attempt to help me… I have discovered all these suggestions before but they are not the reason. I noticed that this lags happen when I add for instance 1-2 tracks with strings and record some chords on them. So when two-three tracks with 3 different “string ensembe” voices start to play, Motif starts lagging with tempo… I tested all tacks to have no additional controller data such as CAT or Volume change or Brightness - I cleared them all but that doesnt work.

Is it normal for Motif?

If you are in pattern mode, yes this is normal for the es. you can’t let the strings *roll over* to start of loop try to end the strings before the end of loop.

santea - 22 February 2010 10:02 AM

And one more trouble - in Pattern mode, when I want to change voice for any track which already contains some midi data, the original voice returns when I quit Mixing mode (I store all changes as usually and in Song mode that works fine). So once I have chosen a voice for track and recorded some sequence in Pattern mode I cant change this voice in Mix mode anymore…

Change the voice when you press the record button in that window
salsa

salsamac - 27 February 2010 11:45 PM

If you are in pattern mode, yes this is normal for the es. you can’t let the strings *roll over* to start of loop try to end the strings before the end of loop.

You know, the tempo lagging happens not with junction of pattern, but in the middle of pattern. I tried to convert this pattern into song and the problem didn’t disappear. And as I mentioned above the problem is caused by using “The Big String Ensemble” voice… I’m waiting now for SmartMedia card from ebay to upgrade the OS maybe it will help… And I’m thinking over selling my Motiff cause this lagging is very disappointing factor…

salsamac - 27 February 2010 11:45 PM

Change the voice when you press the record button in that window
salsa

That works! Thank you! It’s not very convenient but it works! =)

If you are in PATTERN mode the Motif ES will always want to return the VOICE you recorded the PATTERN with (it’s a feature… imagine if it didn’t!)

The information about what you played, what Voice you used, and how loud it was, and where it is panned is stored in something called the Phrase Header, you can view (and change) this information as follows:

Press [RECORD] - to view the Record Setup screen
Press [F2] VOICE
You are now looking at the data that the ES has stored for this particular Track’s Phrase Header… If you would like to change the VOICE, you can do so, now.

Press [STOP]
Done! This new information is written to the Phrase Header and the ES will return to this new information - every time! It’s a feature. :^)

You asked if it is normal for the ES to lag when layering multiple string ensemble sounds, the answer is yes, if you exceed the polyphony… Rather than layer multiple string sounds to increase the size of your orchestra, it is highly recommended that you learn to use your effect processors.

If, in the real world you needed to double or triple the size of your string section, it would be exactly 2 times or 3 times the cost (in salaries) not to mention the additional seating and charts (lol)…

The expense in the synth world is you are spending you polyphony very quickly… if you have a stereo string sound and you layer it 3 times and you play a six note chord… thats 36 notes of your polyphony right there.

Many people don’t believe me at first (and I have plenty of emails and private messages that later they do get it) but using your Chorus effect to thicken the string sound is very, very doable and actually preferrable to layering another string ensemble sound.

The Chorus processor is a time delay effect… In fact in the Chorus processor you have the SYMPHONIC Effect type… this was developed specifically to thicken and enrich string ensemble sounds - work with it, tweak it (don’t just apply it and expect it to work immediately - it all depends on YOUR string playing and YOUR musical environment.

But the SYMPHONIC is a doubling type effect that utilizes the stereo field and the ear/brains ability to recognize and increase in ensemble size when you delay one side slightly… Check it out, and save your polyphony

Remember in the real world you could afford to higher that many string players, and in a synth you can’t afford the polyphony - besides the EFFECTS do it better!!!