Dear All!

Last year I bought a Yamaha MO8 synth. Drawback of this synth is a polyphony of 64. With one or two layered instruments this should be enough. When I add another layer (three layers) I experience note cut off’s (which is VERY ugly). I am thinking of buying a Motif Rack XS to expand my polyphony. My question is what is best practice in this case? In particular I want to use the Motif Rack XS in combination with my MO8 and Roland A33 a in live performance situation. Switching between instrument sets and layers etc.

Any insights, experiences, tips/ trics would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you in advance!

Kind regards,

Giljam

Make the Mo your controller and use Master Mode to direct the traffic. In this way you can have 128 different voice or multi selections available on both the Mo and the rack with the press of a button. I do it all the time. Don’t know a thing about the A33, but if you want both keyboards to operate the Rack, you’ll need a 2 into 1 midi splitter.

Bob

First of all thanks for your reply! Sorry for the late reply! Could you provide me with more details, because I am having difficulties with master mode and multiple layers (turning them on and of in while player). I currently use pattern.

Thanks in advance!

Kind regards,

Giljam

SpongeBob - 23 January 2010 11:34 AM

Make the Mo your controller and use Master Mode to direct the traffic. In this way you can have 128 different voice or multi selections available on both the Mo and the rack with the press of a button. I do it all the time. Don’t know a thing about the A33, but if you want both keyboards to operate the Rack, you’ll need a 2 into 1 midi splitter.

Bob

Read pages 122 - 127 in your manual for a detailed description of how to set up a master. Post any problems you have for additional help. Using the manual as a reference is a big help, because it’s silly to write an entire section of the manual here, and I have no idea where you are having problems.

As a quick overview, Master Mode is nothing more than a pointer. You set each one up to point at things that already exist somewhere else. It could be a Voice, a Pattern, a Performance or a Song. It can also point at an external device by calling on the Bank MSB/LSB. Each Master can have four control zones. So you could have one master point at a Pattern or Performance on your MO, as well as a Multi (like a song or pattern, but without the sequencer function) on a connected XS Rack. You could also split your keyboard so that the MO sounds on the lower keys while the Racks sounds on the upper keys (just an example).

Work with the manual, follow the examples and you’ll get the hang of it.

Bob

Hi there Bob,

To be honest, I gave up reading the manual, because in my opinion not all possibilities are documented very well. In particular what I want to achieve is not documenten as extensively as normal synth operations. I also bought the promo DVD which I hoped would shed some light on the subject, but it was more a marketing DVD (a VERY expensive one!).

But, I will give it another try.

Kind regards,

Giljam

SpongeBob - 25 January 2010 04:49 PM

Read pages 122 - 127 in your manual for a detailed description of how to set up a master. Post any problems you have for additional help. Using the manual as a reference is a big help, because it’s silly to write an entire section of the manual here, and I have no idea where you are having problems.

As a quick overview, Master Mode is nothing more than a pointer. You set each one up to point at things that already exist somewhere else. It could be a Voice, a Pattern, a Performance or a Song. It can also point at an external device by calling on the Bank MSB/LSB. Each Master can have four control zones. So you could have one master point at a Pattern or Performance on your MO, as well as a Multi (like a song or pattern, but without the sequencer function) on a connected XS Rack. You could also split your keyboard so that the MO sounds on the lower keys while the Racks sounds on the upper keys (just an example).

Work with the manual, follow the examples and you’ll get the hang of it.

Bob

There is a Behind the Manual article that provides great instructions on Master Mode that was very easy to find on the old website. Since the update, this place is a mess, but I’m sure it’s located somewhere on this website, so maybe someone can find it for you and provide the link.

Bob

There is a Behind the Manual article that provides great instructions on Master Mode that was very easy to find on the old website. Since the update, this place is a mess, but I’m sure it’s located somewhere on this website, so maybe someone can find it for you and provide the link

To find the article “Understanding the MO Master Mode” take the following steps:

On the right of the current screen you will see a magnifying glass (signifying you are searching for something).

Type in the space marked “Search by keyboard” the following:
Master Mode

Set the “Search for All words” item to “Exact Phrase Match”

Click on the Magnifying glass to begin the search....
Listed in the left column are all the SUPPORT area articles referencing MASTER Mode… “The Understanding the MO Master Mode” article will be the second one on the list.
Listed in the second column are FORUM posts referring to MASTER MODE…
Listed in the third column are SHOP items that refer to MASTER MODE…

It is actually quicker and easier to search for things now… but you do have to use it. :^)

Hi there!

I have a question regarding a pattern in master mode.

I want to accomplish the following
Layering 2 internal instruments on the MO8 and 1 external instrument on my external device (listening on midi ch. 3). Being able to change the volume of these instruments (zones)separately while playing.

I’ve set-up a pattern as follows
track 1: out ch 1, INT SW: on, EXT SW: off
track 2: out ch 2, INT SW: on, EXT SW: off
track 3: out ch 3, port 1, INT SW: off, EXT SW: on

Mixing settings
part01: Draw control organ, mode: receivech 1
part02: Traditional organ, mode: receivech 2
part03: Grand Piano, mode: receivech 3
(I skipped the limits and noteshifts for this exercise)

Master mode
Associated master 001(a01) with this pattern with zoneswitch on, common -> other -> zone/slider set to “zone”.
Zone 1: TransCh 1, TGSwitch on, MIDISwitch off
Zone 2: TransCh 2, TGSwitch on, MIDISwitch off
Zone 3: TransCh 3, TGSwitch off, MIDISwitch on (the external device)

Result
Now the zone sliders work perfectly, even zone 3 sends out volume changes to my external device. I can change the volume of zone 1, zone 2 and zone 3 changing the instrument volumes as I play. That’s great.

Problem
The problem I have is that the MO8 doesn’t seem to transmit zone 3 on midi channel 3 but on channel 1 (keys and slider both transmit on channel 1). With only one external instrument that wouldn’t be a problem, but with for instance 2 external instruments the sliders of both zones would interfere with each other.

Furthermore I would like to be able to mute each zone with the press of a single button. In pattern mode I could mute the part’s with mute -> part number. This does not seem to work in pattern master mode.

What am I doing wrong?? Am I using the pattern mode wrong? Can the keyboard of the MO8 send out only 1 channel while playing live?

Thanks for your help!

Kind regards,

WizzyWizz

First you say: “Layering 2 internal instruments on the MO8 and 1 external instrument...” which implies you have 2 internal sounds and 1 external sound.

Later you say: “With only one external instrument that wouldn’t be a problem, but with for instance 2 external instruments the sliders of both zones would interfere with each other.” which implies that you have 2 external instruments… we are confused about what is not working for you.

Are you attempting to add a second external instrument - and it is this that is not working or are you wondering how to get you current setup to work? Let us know.

Problem
The problem I have is that the MO8 doesn’t seem to transmit zone 3 on midi channel 3 but on channel 1 (keys and slider both transmit on channel 1).

As we read your settings the MO is not transmitting internally on MIDI Channel 3, it is only set to transmit OUT via MIDI to the External device on Channel 3. Channels 1 and 2 are internal sounds, Channel 3 is only external - is that correct?

If your external device is not set to receive on Channel 3, make sure it is set to receive on MIDI channel 3. And make sure it is not in something like OMNI mode or something strange.

And we assume you have the “LAYER 1-4 PARTS” parameter set to OFF

Furthermore I would like to be able to mute each zone with the press of a single button. In pattern mode I could mute the part’s with mute -> part number. This does not seem to work in pattern master mode

The MUTEs you mention in PATTERN mode stop either the Keyboard from transmitting to a PART (Track Mute) or stop the MO tone generator from sounding (Part Mute)… In PATTERN mode you are only transmitting on 1 MIDI channel at a time. In MASTER mode you can transmit on as many as 4 (you have yours set for transmitting on three channels simultaneously. Unfortunately, the only way to stop transmitting on a particular ZONE its to work the TGSwitch and the MIDISwitch for each ZONE.

Hi there Bad_Mister,

First off all thanks for your reply to my question! I really appreciate it!

Well, in this case I have a song which includes 2 internal sounds (the two different organs) and a piano (in this case Fix You from Coldplay). Because the MO8 only has a polyphony of 64, I want to extend it with a external device. I currently use a VST on my computer (TruePiano’s from 4Front), but in the future I want a Motif Rack XS. What I did was the following, I set-up my MO8 as I specified and set-up Cubase 5 to monitor the midi port. When I play with all 3 zones, the midi monitor on my computer specifies that the midi data is received through midi channel 1 and not channel 3. When I set-up this VST to listen to midi channel 3 it doesn’t work (using the transformer insert to filter out all other channels). When I set it up to listen to midi channel 1, it does work. Which I find very strange, because I set-up zone 3 to transmit on channel 3. But somehow the MO8 transmits all data to midi channel 1 (it is overruled somewhere?).
In this case I extrapolated that if I were to add another VST which I would like to use zone4 and configured zone4 to transmit on midi channel 4, the result would be that zone4 would also be transmitting on midi channel 1 and not channel 4.

So basically I am wondering why the pattern in master mode is not transmitting zone3 on midi channel 3?

Where can I find the setting to disable “LAYER 1-4 PARTS”? I presume somewhere in the pattern mode? Does this option “merge” the layers to one midi channel? Resulting in one channel being transmitted out?

About the muting of zones. Okay. So basically what you are saying is that the only way I can mute a zone is by using the volume slider of the particular zone?

In pattern mixing mode I could mute a particular part thus muting a particular layer. Let’s say I wanted to start playing with layer 1 (zone1/ part01), a littlebit further in the song I add layer 2 (zone2/ part02), in the middle I add layer 3 (zone3/ part03) which is the external instrument. In pattern mixing mode I could accomplish this by pressing the mute/ unmute button of a particular part. I presumed that a pattern in master mode would still have this function, but I am beginning to understand that I am misusing the mixing mode of the pattern. Is there another way to accomplish adding and removing layers as I play?

Thanks again for your insight.

Kind regards,

WizzyWizz

Bad_Mister - 28 February 2010 01:18 PM

First you say: “Layering 2 internal instruments on the MO8 and 1 external instrument...” which implies you have 2 internal sounds and 1 external sound.

Later you say: “With only one external instrument that wouldn’t be a problem, but with for instance 2 external instruments the sliders of both zones would interfere with each other.” which implies that you have 2 external instruments… we are confused about what is not working for you.

Are you attempting to add a second external instrument - and it is this that is not working or are you wondering how to get you current setup to work? Let us know.

Problem
The problem I have is that the MO8 doesn’t seem to transmit zone 3 on midi channel 3 but on channel 1 (keys and slider both transmit on channel 1).

As we read your settings the MO is not transmitting internally on MIDI Channel 3, it is only set to transmit OUT via MIDI to the External device on Channel 3. Channels 1 and 2 are internal sounds, Channel 3 is only external - is that correct?

If your external device is not set to receive on Channel 3, make sure it is set to receive on MIDI channel 3. And make sure it is not in something like OMNI mode or something strange.

And we assume you have the “LAYER 1-4 PARTS” parameter set to OFF

Furthermore I would like to be able to mute each zone with the press of a single button. In pattern mode I could mute the part’s with mute -> part number. This does not seem to work in pattern master mode

The MUTEs you mention in PATTERN mode stop either the Keyboard from transmitting to a PART (Track Mute) or stop the MO tone generator from sounding (Part Mute)… In PATTERN mode you are only transmitting on 1 MIDI channel at a time. In MASTER mode you can transmit on as many as 4 (you have yours set for transmitting on three channels simultaneously. Unfortunately, the only way to stop transmitting on a particular ZONE its to work the TGSwitch and the MIDISwitch for each ZONE.

I set-up my MO8 as I specified and set-up Cubase 5 to monitor the midi port.

You’d better spend some time getting into how a computer DAW (Cubase in your case) routes MIDI… it has little to do with using MASTER mode on MO.

First, lets correct an untrue statement… it is absolutely for sure that the MO is transmitting on MIDI channel 3 to the external device.

What you don’t realize (apparently) is that computer software is designed to channelize incoming MIDI data (no matter what channel it originates on) and it forces it to the channel of the active MIDI track. So by not mentioning Cubase and by not mentioning you are attempting to use some VSTi, in your original question, you basically have just forgot to mention the most important part of your question.

You don’t own a Motif-Rack XS so forget about “LAYER 1-4 PARTS” - that’s a parameter in the Rack XS. We assumed you had a Rack XS since you posted here in the Rack XS forum So forget what we told you ... it doesn’t apply.

We are not completely sure what you are doing exactly… using the PATTERN in the MO and Cubase 5… sorry, you post was way to misleading for us… What we recommended would work for hardware (like if you owned a Motif-Rack XS) - without knowing your VSTi, it is hard to say.

If you are using Cubase 5 you will want to setup an INPUT TRANSFORMER to eliminate all channels but Channel 3…

If you need help with this let us know.

Hello again Bad_Mister,

First off all my sincere apologies. I thought I was clear in my earlier posts that I was planning to buy a Motif Rack XS. I just wanted to get to know the MO8 first before I’d buy another complex piece of equipement.

As I stated I already used a input transformer to delete all midi channels except channel 3. After this exercise I started up a midi monitor to analyse the midi data. As far as I know MIDI tracks in Cubase are omni in, but that doesn’t mean that Cubase “alters” the midi channel of the midi data? I used to use this with my roland A33 keyboard all the time (splitting the keyboard into two different midi channels and using a input transformer to “channel” the midi data to a specific track/ vsti). But if you say that the MO8 is absolutely transmitting on midi channel 3, then I must be doing something wrong in Cubase. Which I find very strange, because I used to use this configuration before I had a MO8.

Sorry that I kept the fact that I was using Cubase from you. The fact that I reused this particular post to get more knowledge regarding configuring the MO8 to transmit to a particular midi channel in a layered configuration wasn’t really smart. That´s why I started a different post.

Kind regards,

WizzyWizz

Bad_Mister - 28 February 2010 04:44 PM

I set-up my MO8 as I specified and set-up Cubase 5 to monitor the midi port.

You’d better spend some time getting into how a computer DAW (Cubase in your case) routes MIDI… it has little to do with using MASTER mode on MO.

First, lets correct an untrue statement… it is absolutely for sure that the MO is transmitting on MIDI channel 3 to the external device.

What you don’t realize (apparently) is that computer software is designed to channelize incoming MIDI data (no matter what channel it originates on) and it forces it to the channel of the active MIDI track. So by not mentioning Cubase and by not mentioning you are attempting to use some VSTi, in your original question, you basically have just forgot to mention the most important part of your question.

You don’t own a Motif-Rack XS so forget about “LAYER 1-4 PARTS” - that’s a parameter in the Rack XS. We assumed you had a Rack XS since you posted here in the Rack XS forum So forget what we told you ... it doesn’t apply.

We are not completely sure what you are doing exactly… using the PATTERN in the MO and Cubase 5… sorry, you post was way to misleading for us… What we recommended would work for hardware (like if you owned a Motif-Rack XS) - without knowing your VSTi, it is hard to say.

If you are using Cubase 5 you will want to setup an INPUT TRANSFORMER to eliminate all channels but Channel 3…

If you need help with this let us know.