It appears obvious that MLAN has no long-term viability if anyone wants to move to 64 bit operating systems. Does this mean the best I can do with my ES7 in a home studio configuration is just hook the analog audio outputs to another interface? Are there any solutions for digitally connecting the multichannel signal to an interface? All I’ve run across is using the AIEB2 for stereo optical/digital IO. Seems a shame to lose all this capability. I’m still appalled that Yamaha doesn’t see fit to upgrade the MLAN drivers.

You can actually continue to use your Motif ES w/mLAN16E with the computer that can run the driver. Most likely the Motif ES is still working, and the mLAN16E is still working… you may have noticed that you need to replace your computer more often than your music hardware. That is reality. I’m not that kind of engineer so I cannot tell you what the issue is with 64-bit computers. However, mLAN has evolved. The new generation firewire interface will support 64-bit computer operating systems.

The Motif ES and mLAN16E came out in 2003, how many computers have you purchased in the last 6 and a half years? I know this is of little solace, but unfortunately Yamaha no longer makes computers - I imagine if Yamaha was still in the computer building business such support would exist. But, unfortunately, that is not the case.

Bad_Mister - 10 December 2009 06:41 PM

You can actually continue to use your Motif ES w/mLAN16E with the computer that can run the driver. Most likely the Motif ES is still working, and the mLAN16E is still working… you may have noticed that you need to replace your computer more often than your music hardware. That is reality. I’m not that kind of engineer so I cannot tell you what the issue is with 64-bit computers. However, mLAN has evolved. The new generation firewire interface will support 64-bit computer operating systems.

The Motif ES and mLAN16E came out in 2003, how many computers have you purchased in the last 6 and a half years? I know this is of little solace, but unfortunately Yamaha no longer makes computers - I imagine if Yamaha was still in the computer building business such support would exist. But, unfortunately, that is not the case.

I’ve purchased 1 computer since 2003, which I use as a music workstation running Sonar Producer with the ES/mLAN16E as my audio interface. The mLAN device provides many integrated capabilities that a new generation firewire interface will not provide. So moving to Windows 7/64 renders that configuration obsolete. I’m not sure how Yamaha not being in the computer business any longer relates to them no longer maintaining drivers to support music workstations that have plenty of life still in them. Has the mLAN interface on the XS been similarly rendered obsolete from the standpoint of operating system upgrades?

Bad_Mister - 10 December 2009 06:41 PM

However, mLAN has evolved. The new generation firewire interface will support 64-bit computer operating systems.

Now I am confused. Do you mean that I can use my mLan16E with 64-bit Windows 7 OS if it is connected by “new generation firewire interface”? Can you give more details about it?

THis I think raises an interesting point about digital audio equipment.

What connection standards should manufacturers support and which should they innovate with and how long do you cling to a connection type/standard before jumping to the next thing.

I know the only connection types I am comfortable investing long term money into buying gear with are analogue, ADAT, and MIDI outside of that you know its dead money in 5 years.

My mackie controls midi it will always be supported.
My mpc has analogue outs, and MIDI they will always be supported :)

The connectivity of hardware is an interesting issue it would be nice if there was a really good long term solution maybe the ethernet ideas kicking around in different gear at the moment may promise greater longevity. I certainly have no idea :)

I remember that MLAN was truly awful when I own a 01x for one week. I never forgave yamaha or their mlan standard for that :) just like I never forgave kurzweil for the continual button failure on my k2500.

You can only hope that your mlan drivers keep working. I hope they do as its a real shame when parts of gears function become useless. 

It is worth saying that the Motif ES is still on sale brand new at the moment and so although first made in 2003 there are still new ES’s being sold. So Brad you could argue that Yamaha has a duty to still support them if you finished selling them in 2003 fair enough but thats not the case. Seems a shame if all that Mlan gear becomes redundant with ant a shift to 64 bit.

Mind you maybe someone would write shareware drivers then. Hope there is a happy ending.

Geoff

This thing stinks to high heaven. We are talking about firmware driver support, not rebuilding the space shuttle. This happens many times over in the real world, as backward compatibility is almost a given in most decent products.

In this case, Yamaha slammed the doors on future driver support and their solution is to upgrade all of your hardware. If I was a betting man, I would say that the reason Yamaha refuses to support mLAN is their is an inherent flaw(s) in the way that it has been implemeted and the newer operating systems would expose said flaw(s). Otherwise, passing on the driver support to the shareware community would seem to be a logical progression. Since it has not nor is it expected to be, I smell a rat. I can’t believe Yamaha’s attitude in the manner and as such, I am voting with my wallet and moving on. Imagine in 2 years when the the word comes down that the XS or whatever the next great mousetrap is connectivity will not be supported at whatever whim the management decides. You can keep it…

Sad too, because I really bought into the promise of mLAN and while it worked somewhat on my 32 bit OS, I have to move forward HW/SW wise. The newer DAW’s are moving forward as well.

Based on my experience with this I can no longer recommend nor will I give Yamaha any of my hard earned dollars. My gear is up for sale for anyone that wants to continue in this realm.

I suspect that my position will be attacked my the Yamaha apologists, but up until now, I was a huge Yamaha supporter. But I will no longer pay the price for a lack of a companies commitment to their customers.

Thank you for listening…

“ would say that the reason Yamaha refuses to support mLAN is their is an inherent flaw”

may well be true I thought mlan was a disaster on Mac OSX when I tried it with an 01X I think the second hand price still reflects that. I made the shop I bought it from take it back! as I felt it wasn’t fit for purpose.

I don’t know what the Mlan drivers are like now though.

I have no patience for stuff that does not work correctly when I buy it so pursued it no further.

I think you have a fair point as like I said before the ES is still on sale and was only properly replaced a short while ago if you bought it brand new it was also a very significant investment of money.

It took me many years to buy another piece of yamaha gear after my mlan 01x experience.
I hope they change their mind.

on another level though I would rather yamaha had a card option to send 8 channels of ADAT and a second midi port than the mlan card. That would have been much more future proof.

Geoff

I’m also mLAN16E user and I’ve bought it in a last minute, before Yamaha discontinued its production. I know that XS is newer and (maybe or probably) better, but I’ll never sold my ES. I also don’t know why should I change to 64bit OS if I don’t work with so many soft synths and a large amount of sampled material on computer.
If people who play music agree that they do not change their gear so frequently as computer manufactures changes its capabilities and OS version, I don’t know why should anyone want to replace computer that work correctly with software that could meet all everyday needs.
So, I’m staying at XP and existing latest software for ES. Until some update for Win7 comes…

Alex

It’s sad mLan didn’t stick better, but a full-up mLan system pushes the limits of current firewire capability anyway, so there’s not much room to expand it regardless. There’s bound to be a mega-mLan on steroids system someday that WILL stick.

The bad scenario I see is not so much Yamaha’s lack of support for mLan, but the eventual discontinuance of XP support by manufacturers and Microsoft. New gear will require Win7, it won’t be backwards compatible with XP, and then you’re truly stuck.

I use the ES, an i88x, Cubase, and a Kurzweil KSP8 all on an XP mLan system and it works splendidly. I integrate my other synths onto the system with the i88x and a Midex8. It did take about 3 days of work and a new firewire card to get it properly configured and to fully understand why it wouldn’t let me hook it the way I was trying, but now it’s rock-solid and works great. I’d be interested to know what issues people had with the 01X.

The mLan discontinuance sucks mostly because of the way it was marketed; “wave of the future, other vendors and partners”, etc. But its demise won’t stop me from buying new Yamaha gear. They still have the most professionally implementated keybeds, hardware, and synth engines (the interface and file i/o is awful though).

I only recently bought all my mLan stuff knowing it was being discontinued, because I saw it did exactly what I wanted. I use StudioManager with the editors and Total Recall function, and am trying my hand at writing GTRC code for my Roland gear.  It will keep me busy for years, but I’m just a hobbiest. I can see how others will need more.

i knew this would happen...i was totally for mlan when i first heard about it.....then i got my motif es in 06....the xs came out in 07 with a whole new mlan adapter, no backwards compatibility. you can’t even really find mlan adapter for the es anymore let alone any expansion.

take a look at the plug-in board they used to support that they stopped supporting when the xs came out....on top of that they even raised the price of the xs after it came out.....

now there is usb 3 which is about to come into existance which blows firewire out the water. so now yamaha will they continue to push mlan with the next generation xs?

i dig my yamaha gear but the way they build it they need to think about future proofing their gear. 

you can do amazing things with firmware now a days....

Sheesh, enough Yamaha hating here?

I’ve been an engineer designing computers for almost 30 years and in my opinion tying musical instruments to computers has been a mixed blessing.

Upset about MLAN? Why not get up in arms about older gear that connects to computer serial and parallel ports, uses Zip drives or 5V Smart Media and needs software that ran on Atari, Amiga and Apple II computers.

Manufacturers can’t support old gear indefinitely and the stuff that doesn’t sell well or is going to be discontinued is first on the list when dropping support is considered.

Most software sold to businesses is subscription based, you want updates and bug fixes you pay for them. If Yamaha offered paid support for MLAN would you subscribe? I’ll be 100% honest, if Yamaha offered me updates to run the PLG editors on the latest OSes for $100 I’d pay it but most users probably would not.

End of rant ;)

Obsolescence is a fact of life, but perhaps the issue with computers is that it occurs so quickly / frequently. In general, I would say that computers are probably responsible for more wasted money and time than we have ever seen from any product in the history of man. How many of us can list items purchased that never really returned any value to us even when new? I have a few soft synths that fit that category.

Bob

but it shouldn’t be so hard to have come out with a new mlan adapter that was backwards compatible...they just thought every es user would buy the xs…

I’ve had my mLAN gear for many years (motif es, 01X, i88X) and after a rough start, it has been running flawlessly.  I even purchased the N8 and incorporated it to my mLAN gear and everything has been running flawlessly.

When Yamaha updated the firmware with the n-series to break the compatibility with mLAN, I chose not to implement the upgrade because I was committed to mLAN.

For those who had problems with the 01X, it is a shame you left the platform because now it runs FLAWLESSLY!  To this day, nothing compares it it (The n-series SOUNDS unbelievable but its functionality does not compare to the 01X). 

I like everyone else was deeply disappointed when it was announced that mLAN would no longer be supported but it made me realize that the business model of computer integration with recording/music gear is somewhat flawed: Although computers are ubiquitous and relatively inexpensive, music gear is not so its easier and cheaper to upgrade your computer but not your synth.  Also, the average owner tends to hold on to music gear FAR longer than their computers.

My motif es runs flawlessly and has a unique feature that is not available on the motif xs: the PLG boards.  I agree that some of the sounds on the XS are awesome, but I did not want to part with my es.

Someday soon firewire will go the way of the serial port but right now it is still a standard.  Also, the motif es is still in high levels of usage so I just wish Yamaha would do like what MOTU does; they still support a lot of their legacy gear.  Its not like they need to write drivers from scratch.  Instead, they need to make their drivers compatible with Windows 7 64 (apparently the Vista 32 bit drivers work with Windows 7 32).

Well, I just pulled the mLan16e card out of my ES8 tonight.  I just got a brand new Mac Pro with Snow Leopard.  No more mLan.

To be truthful, I’ve always found mLan messy and confusing as hell to work with.  The other things like Studio Manager and some of the editors look like crap on a Mac too.  It’s obvious these were just ported to the Mac OS.

Anyway, the only Yamaha software that is installed on my new Mac is the USB driver.  Over the last couple of years, I’ve been doing more stuff within Logic Pro using the built in soft synths.  I really like the simplicity of just having a USB connection and using soft synths.  Much easier and faster to record tracks and get stuff done.

mLan was a good idea, but I’m not in the market for a new keyboard anytime soon.  The next one I get will probably just be a controller keyboard.

I’m going to buy a Apogee Duet now and use it as my audio interface.

Are you using the USB driver with the Motif? If so, in what way?