Hi,

I have a MOTIF XS 8 running firmware 1.5.5.

I have been working on a piece that uses portamento, and I am using a computer-based sequencer (Digital Performer 7).

When I have a Voice selected on the Motif, I can turn Portamento on and off using a a menu on the Motif display, called “Portamento Switch”. This is on the 2nd lower-left tab called “Porta” on the voice main screen.

However, I can’t seem to turn portamento on or off from my computer sequencer, using MIDI command 65 (portamento switch). It has no effect on the Motif at all; only the menu setting on the motif works, it seems to override everything else. This is a problem because my sequence needs to turn portamento on and off during playback.

The funny thing is, I alto tried assigning AF2 on the Motif to “portamento switch”. This also has NO effect whatsoever on the portamento effect. Pressing this switch does transmit midi portamento switch however. And when the computer sends midi portamento switch, the little light on the AF2 button goes off or on accordingly. So I know the midi command can be sent and received.

I just don’t know why it has no effect on the actual portamento state of the tone generator; only the Motif menu setting makes a difference.

Anyone?

Portamento Time (Control Number 005)
This MIDI message controls the portamento effect. No portamento is produced when the value is “0,” and “127” produces maximum portamento time. Portamento is only produced when Portamento (Control Number 065) is ON.

Portamento (Control Number 065)
This MIDI message turns portamento ON or OFF. When the value is “0” – “63” portamento is OFF, and when the data is “64” – “127” portamento is ON. The length (degree) of the portamento effect is controlled by Portamento Time (Control Number 005).

We are not at all sure why you cannot get Portamento to work from your DAW. We just tested this using Cubase AI4 and all works just as expected. Do you have any more details?

Hi,

I don’t think this has anything to do with my DAW. It seems that the XS tone generator is simply not responding to MIDI control 65 (portamento switch), either from internal or external source.

Here’s how to reproduce:

1. Power on

2. Voice select PRE4:80 (E16). (Trombone 1 AF1)

3. Press [F2/Porta]

4. Set Portamento Switch: on

5. Set Portamento Time: 64

6. Play octaves lagato to verify portamento effect

7. Press [Utility], [F3/Voice], [SF3/Control]

8. Set A. Function 2 Control No: 65 Portamento Switch

9. Press [Edit], [Common Edit], [F1/General], [SF3/Other]

10. Set A. Function 2 Mode: latch

11. Press [Voice]

12. Play octaves legato with [AF2] off.

13. Play octaves lagato with [AF2] on.

MIDI control 65 (portamento switch) is transmitted when the [AF2] button is pressed, but has no effect on the internal tone generator.

Likewise, when MIDI control 65 (portamento switch) is received, the [AF2] button state changes accordingly, with no effect on the internal tone generator.

The only way to turn portamento switch on or off is with the [Porta] menu, as described in steps 1-4. These steps were performed with no DAW attached, just the standalone Motif.

MOTIF XS Firmware Version 1.55.11
MOTIF XS Kernel Version 2.610_mvl401-1.1.1.kbw_k2x.64
MOTIF XS Contents Version 1.55.11

-Kevin

The only way to turn portamento switch on or off is with the [Porta] menu, as described in steps 1-4. These steps were performed with no DAW attached, just the standalone Motif.

No, not at all.

cc065 “Portamento Switch” is designed to be controlled with a momentary Foot Switch… One reason why it is located right there among the other momentary pedal functions (cc064 = sustain, cc066 = sostenuto, cc067 = soft pedal) I believe the thinking was it allows you to keep your hands free for keyboard performance while manipulating the portamento articulation with your feet.

However, if you would like to take advantage of the programmable “latch” function of the Assignable Function switches, you can do so as follows: (using your example)

Simply add this step as step 8a

8a. Set “Foot Switch Control No. = 065 [Portamento Switch]

What this will do (whether or not you have an FC4/FC5 plugged in) is make the ON/OFF function of the AF button (also programmed to 065) control the Portamento Switch ON/OFF… you can now “latch” the portamento function in place (while the LED is ON) and turn it OFF when desired (LED OFF).

Ok,

That is interesting, and somewhat helpful, thanks! For the time being it seems I can get AF2 to control portamento, as long as I also assign Foot Switch to it as well.

I’m not sure I understand why I have to assign Foot Switch to cc065 in order to use one of the Assignable Function buttons to control portamento. What if I want AF2 to control portamento (momentary or latched) while using the Foot Switch to control something else?

BTW, using the information you shared with me, I did some further testing with my DAW.

I discovered that the Motif does respond correctly to cc065, unless I assign AF1 or AF2 to cc065, and not the Foot Switch. In this case the tone generator ignores cc065.

Maybe I am grossly misunderstanding the purpose of the Assignable Function buttons? I just assumed I could use them like any other controller… maybe you can explain.

I do appreciate your time and help!

-Kevin

BTW The Motif is a great instrument, despite my first post being a problem!

I discovered that the Motif does respond correctly to cc065, unless I assign AF1 or AF2 to cc065, and not the Foot Switch. In this case the tone generator ignores cc065.

Yes we were pretty confident that the Motif XS does respond correctly to cc065. We however, thought you were fixed on using the “latch” function of the AF buttons. 

Maybe I am grossly misunderstanding the purpose of the Assignable Function buttons? I just assumed I could use them like any other controller…

Different controllers vary in how they can be used. The momentary switch Control Change numbers, as I mentioned previously cc064, 065, 066 and 067 are designed to work on a momentary basis. You cannot assign them to the latch buttons on their own, nor can you assign them to any other physical controller (on their own).

... cc064 on the Motif XS being exclusively the domain of the dedicated Sustain pedal jack.

Some Control Changes are fixed in their function, for example:
cc005 Portamento Time
cc007 Channel Volume
cc010 Pan
cc011 Expression
cc064 Sustain (Hold 1)
cc066 Sustenuto (Hold 2)
...

While others are not, for example:
cc001 Modulation Wheel
cc002 Breath Controller
cc004 Foot Controller
cc016 General Purpose 1
cc017 General Purpose 2
cc022 Ribbon Controller
...

Addtionally, to understand how the Motif XS works with MIDI conventions you have to appreciate that a Voice is actually 8 synthesizers - an Element can be a complete multi-sampled instrument sound. Assigning a controller to a standard Control Change number does not guarantee that is will directly affect the Motif XS tone engine. Assigning a control change number to a physical controller only guarantees that’s what it will send OUT via MIDI.

Making Assignable Knob 1 send cc074 Filter Cutoff (Brightness) does not necessarily mean that turning this know will work the filter of the Motif XS… remember, assigning a control to a standard cc number does not guarantee that it will directly affect the XS tone engine. (In fact it will not, and would be a waste, as the XS handles this in a different way).

In the XS VOICE design is the “Control Set” where you can assign a SOURCE (a physical controller) to control any of 100 DESTINATIONS (a parameter within the Voice architecture). By implementing controllers this way you can have more concise and more complex control over your sound.

Say I have a Voice that is 8 Elements where each has a different type of Filter, with a different dB/Octave slope, and I want my assignable knob to only affect Elements 2, 4 and 7 ... well, you can do that via the Control Set. Select a SOURCE controller, set the DESTINATION to “Cutoff”, and select the Elements that will be affected.

If you had a system where you set a knob to cc074 then it would control all the filters together - and that would be quite a different thing.

Because on occasion that is precisely what you want, therefore, the XS provides you with a dedicated “CUTOFF” knob that does send cc074, and does close/open the Cutoff filter frequency on the entire Voice.

But we think that by not having the ‘assignable’ physical controllers always address the tone generator via a standard (fixed function) cc message is far, far more flexible way to approach the synthesizer engine. Particularly, when you have 8 independent multi-sample that can make up a Voice. The CONTROL SET allows you address certain parameters and functions on a per Element basis… while other destinations will affect the entire Voice as a whole.

You can assign controller functions (globally for VOICE mode, and on a per program basis in PERFORMANCE mode and the MIXING modes) so that they are affecting different portions of you setup as required. For example, just because you assign the ASSIGNABLE FUNCTION button to a cc Number and naturally it will send that OUT via MIDI, be aware that it will not necessarily affect the tone engine of the XS directly.

The controllers, for the most part have been pretty well thought out. There are several articles in the SUPPORT area on Assignment of controllers within the Motif XS.

Thanks for all the information, I appreciate it. I will need to digest this and play around with the Motif some more. (Just so you know, I did read up in the manual everything I could find that was relevant, before posting here.)

I guess the only remaining question I have at the moment is, why does the Motif tone generator stop responding to cc065 over MIDI if I assign AF2 to cc065? That still seems strange to me. That is what got me confused in the first place.