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Viewing topic "PLG150 DX - Need Help"

   
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Posted on: November 25, 2009 @ 12:38 PM
Joomusik
Total Posts:  52
Joined  10-15-2006
status: Experienced

Hello all,

I have bought PLG150 DX Plug in Board for my Motif Rack ES.
I want to use it with my Cubase 5 Sequencer and the latest
Yamaha Voice Editor.

The problem is that I can’t get any sound out of the PLG150DX board.

The Multi Part editor works fine and I always used it in the past.

I have now set up the voice editor in Cubase 5 and can send MIDI bulks back and forth but was not able to generate a sound.

I figured that I should better start using XG Works Lite program
which was part of the package, but XP Works Lite doesn’t seem work on Windows XP Pro.  I read that XG Works 3.07 would work
on XP Pro, but there was no download to find on the internet.

I hope you can help or give me some good recommendations.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: November 26, 2009 @ 04:16 AM
nbadesign
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Total Posts:  994
Joined  08-19-2007
status: Guru
Joomusik - 25 November 2009 12:38 PM

Hello all,

I have bought PLG150 DX Plug in Board for my Motif Rack ES.
I want to use it with my Cubase 5 Sequencer and the latest
Yamaha Voice Editor.

The problem is that I can’t get any sound out of the PLG150DX board.

The Multi Part editor works fine and I always used it in the past.

I have now set up the voice editor in Cubase 5 and can send MIDI bulks back and forth but was not able to generate a sound.

I figured that I should better start using XG Works Lite program
which was part of the package, but XP Works Lite doesn’t seem work on Windows XP Pro.  I read that XG Works 3.07 would work
on XP Pro, but there was no download to find on the internet.

I hope you can help or give me some good recommendations.

I think that you missed MIDI port settings. Motif ES and rack communicate with PLG boards on port 2, while MIDI channel is the same as number of your slot where PLG is installed. For instance, if you have installed PLG board in slot 2, you will communicate with it on MIDI channel 2, port 2.
Also, how do you trigger your DX board, by playing external MIDI controller or by notes written in Cubase? Please, give some more detail about your setup in order to help you.

Alex

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: November 26, 2009 @ 01:03 PM
Bad_Mister
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Total Posts:  36648
Joined  07-30-2002
status: Moderator

Forget about XGWorks or XGWorks Lite, they will not make this process any easier and will waste lots of your time. Those are provided with the PLG150-DX because when it first came out (back in the late 20th Century) those programs could host the PLG150 applications. Since that time Studio Manager has come along so any DAW program can utilize the PLG150-series Editors.

So forget about hassling getting anything about XGworks to work… Use Cubase 5 and the Studio Manager.

If you have the PLG150-DX added to your Studio Manager WORKSPACE, then you are ready to work with it.

As suggested above by nbadesign, you will most likely want to address the PLG150-DX on PORT 2. This will allow you to still address the Motif-Rack ES on 16 MIDI channels of PORT 1 and address the two slots of PLG150 boards on PORT 2, using:
MIDI CH 1 to address the Board in Slot 1
MIDI CH 2 to address the Board in Slot 2

You can set the PORT for your PLG150-DX as follows:
Press [UTILITY]
PAGE [>] to the screen labeled: PLG1Sys (or PLG2Sys if your board is in slot 2)
Cursor down and set the Port No. = 2

In Cubase 5 you will launch the STUDIO MANAGER by going to DEVICES > Studio Manager

You want to have the following items in your Studio Manager WORKSPACE:
Motif-Rack ES (MULTI)
Motif-Rack ES (VOICE)
PLG150-DX (DX SIMULATOR)

The DX Simulator is the dedicated Editor for creating your own custom FM sounds with the PLG150-DX. It address the 035/000 bank of the PLG150-DX. Think of this “DX Simulator” program as an Element creator for the DX board Voices. The Motif-Rack ES will address the Board Voices as a single Element (in a similar fashion to how it address a ROM sample in a regular Rack ES Voice). The PLG150-DX is addressed as a single Element VOICE by the Motif-Rack ES engine.

You can download the Editor for the PLG150-DX (DX SIMULATOR here): http://www.yamahasynth.com

The Motif-Rack ES (VOICE) Editor will allow you to edit PLUG-IN VOICES, while the DX SIMULATOR lets you edit BOARD VOICES.

The difference between a BOARD VOICE and a PLUG-IN VOICE is important to understand. The BOARD VOICE is what the PLG150-DX sound is referred to… the PLUG-IN VOICE are the Motif-Rack ES parameters that access the PLG150-DX Board Voice. The PLUG-IN VOICE adds controllers and effects from the Rack ES and applies them to the Board Voice. It basically “finishes” and make the raw data on the DX board into a finished Rack ES VOICE>

The Motif-Rack ES VOICE Editor works with the Motif-Rack ES Voices which can be either the internal (sampled-based) Voices or the PLG150-series sounds.

the Motif-Rack ES MULTI Editor deals exclusively with the internal Rack ES sounds.

You did not provide us with any information about how you are connected to Cubase 5 from your Motif-Rack ES and whether or not you are using it as a MIDI Interface. So before we get into all the possibilities there we would need some more information.

But you must be connected via USB-MIDI or via mLAN in order to use the PORT 2 functions mentioned above. Let us know.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: November 28, 2009 @ 04:28 AM
Joomusik
Total Posts:  52
Joined  10-15-2006
status: Experienced

I’m getting closed to solve this but still can’t get any sound out of the PLG15DX.

First let me answer your questions:

My Motif Rack ES is connected via USB 2.0
and works 100% in Multi Mode using Cubase 5
and the latest Studio Manager.

I am triggering the ES with en external MIDI Keyboard(EMU 49 Xboard)or through cubase 5 with recorded MIDI Data.

Im am only using the ES with Cubase to do recordings. No live sessions.

Here’s what I have done based on your recommendations:

1) Installed the PLG150DX from Slot on to Slot 2
2) Went to Utilities and set the ES to Port 2
3) Ununstalled previously installed XG Works Program
3) Downloaded and installed DX-Simulator, re-booted PC
4) Started DX Simulator outside of Cubase 5
5) Went into MIDI setup to change to:
a) MIDI in: My MIDI Keyboard
b) MIDI Through: Yamaha Motif Rack ES-2
c) MIDI out: Yamaha Motif Rack ES-2
6) Went into the second MIDI Setup page
a) MIDI in: My MIDI Keyboard
b) MIDI out: Yamaha Motif Rack ES-2
c) MIDI Channel: 2
d) Part No.: 15
e) Device No.: 1
f) Board No.2
I tried all kinds to different setting but had no success.

Result:
- When I hit the keyboard, the Voice LED on the ES blinks but NO SOUND
- Can’t send MIDI Bulks back and forth

Then I tried to get the PLG150DX work through Cubase 5.

1) Opened Studio Manager
2) Under “Modify Workspace” only these Instrumetns were listed:
- MOTIF RACK ES (Multi)
- MOTIF RACK ES (Voice)
- The PLG150DX was not on the list so that I could not ADD it to the Workspace.

Hope you can guide me through this.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: November 28, 2009 @ 08:01 AM
Joomusik
Total Posts:  52
Joined  10-15-2006
status: Experienced

I forgot to mention that I use the L+R Main Audio outputs only.
Don’t know if this is important related to the issue I have.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: November 29, 2009 @ 05:14 AM
Joomusik
Total Posts:  52
Joined  10-15-2006
status: Experienced

Here’s a little update since my last post.
I could solve some of the issues, but new ones came up…

Voice Editor

The reason I heared no sound coming from the PLG150DX was beacuse of the basic receive channel which was not set correctly.

I can now play PLG150DX “bank-voices” through Cubase 5,
tweak them and save them under “plg-2 User”.
I can also exchange MIDI bulks.

The problem is now that “plg-2 User” list in the library is completely empty and I’d like to import some soundbanks.

Do you have any idea how I could get those ??

DX Simulator

I found a later version of the DX Simulator on
the original Yamaha homepage and installed it.
Now the PLG150DX is on my workspace.

Problem is that it doesn’t work.
I have loaded the “nosebleed” bank.

- When I play the DX7 Keyboard using the mouse, the sound can barely be heard. When I try to change the sound via the DX7 Buttons, the sound stays the same.
- MIDI Bulk transfer to the Motif does not work.

I think I still need some support…

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: November 29, 2009 @ 05:16 AM
Joomusik
Total Posts:  52
Joined  10-15-2006
status: Experienced

I have attached my DX Simulator Settings for your review and advice.

File Attachments
DX Simulator.docx  (File Size: 22KB - Downloads: 278)
  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: November 29, 2009 @ 09:58 AM
Bad_Mister
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Total Posts:  36648
Joined  07-30-2002
status: Moderator

Okay, I see that you have figured out how to get the PLG150-DX editor (DX Simulator) inside of Studio Manager - good… That’s half the battle!!!

You still need to set the ports to communicate with the PLG Board.

Let me state this and you can refer to it when necessary:

When you are in VOICE mode (or PERFORMANCE mode) on the Motif ES, the PLG150-series Boards will be addressed via the host product’s MIDI connection (which is going to be PORT 1). Voice mode and Performance mode you are addressing everything on the basic receive channel of the Motif ES (host).

However, when you are in MIXING mode (that is, when the Motif ES is set to receive on multiple MIDI channels and mulitple PORTS), then the PORT 2 communication will be in effect. When in MIXING or Multi mode, by setting the PLG150-boards to PORT 2, you have extended the number of MIDI channels that can be reached by the Motif ES.
PORT 1 = the 16 internal PARTS
PORT 2 = the 3 PLG slots if they contain 150-series boards

Each Track can transmit on a specific MIDI channel and MIDI PORT.
From the main sequencer SONG or PATTERN screen, if you press [F3] TRACK, here you can see how each TRACK has an OUTPUT CHANNEL and an OUTPUT PORT.
OFF = the host
1 also = the host
2 = your PLG150 boards.
3 = could be the PLG100-series XG board.

Okay back to your issue.

The screen shot you posted does not have the parameters set at all correctly.

The MIDI IN = ??? What’s an EMU (I thought that was some kind of flightless bird :) ... This is the Port on which you are going to send data to the PLG150-DX.
Set this to Motif ES6-1 when in VOICE or PERFORMANCE mode;
Set this to Motif ES6-2 when in MIXING mode.

The MIDI OUT = Motif ES6-1 when you are in VOICE/PERFORM mode
The MIDI OUT = Motif ES6-2 when you are in SONG/PATTERN MIXING mode

MIDI Channel = ? (you can change this - it should be set to any channel that you have the PLG150-DX set to. By default in MIXING mode PLUG SLOT 2 = CHANNEL 2
The MIDI channel is set in MIXING mode by:
Press [MIXING] > [EDIT]
Press a PART button [1]-[3]
Press the [F6] PLG1-3 to toggle to the PLG Parts
Press [F1] VOICE
Press [SF2] MODE
Set RECEIVE CH =

PART NO. = 16 if SLOT 1
15 = SLOT 2
14 = SLOT 3

Very important. You will need to set this to 15 as your PLG150-DX is in SLOT 2. The PART number parameter has to do with the fact that the PLG150 series boards are compatible with lots of different products, including some GM/XG products. They needed a way to differentiate beteen multiple DX boards in the same unit. The PART number simply counts backwards from 16…

DEVICE NUMBER = 1
You only have one Motif ES keyboard that you have told us about… so Device 1 - if you had 16 Motif ES’s in your setup, this would be useful… but since you don’t, so 1 is fine

Board Number = 1 (again due to the way different boards can be configured to Expand polyphony this parameter allows differentiation between multiple boards. As you can see the system is designed for multiple units with multiple boards and gives you the ability to address specific host’s and specific boards within the hosts.)

In general you can follow the setup as described in the PDF article that accompanies the NOSEBLEED sound set:

• If you are working with the PLG150-DX while in Voice mode, your MIDI interface will address the board as a part of the host product. So you would address it on the first port, PORT 1. It will not matter the PORT assignment of the PLG150 Boards – as long as you are in VOICE mode all Motif ES Voices are addressed on the internal Motif ES Port assignment, which is fixed at PORT 1.

• When addressing the Motif ES from an external MIDI sequencer (MIXING mode), it is common practice to set the PLG150 Boards on a separate Port from the host product. The Motif ES is fixed at Port 1 and often Port 2 is used to communicate with the PLG150 Boards (this allows them to be addressed on separate MIDI channels from the internal Parts thus breaking the 16 MIDI channel limit). This will be true whether you are using USB-MIDI or mLAN-MIDI as the interface for your sequencer.

• In order to address the Plugin Part while the Motif ES is in Song / Pattern MIXING mode, engineering has come up with a method to address the boards by slot and channel assignment. In the DX Simulator Setup you can select a parameter called the “Part No.” (Part number). By setting the Part No. parameter and MIDI channel you will be able to address the PLG150-DX while the unit is in a multi-timbral setup – allowing you to tweak the sound in context of the music it will be used. The Part Number assignment is accomplished as follows:
• Slot 1 = Part 16
• Slot 2 = Part 15
• Slot 3 = Part 14

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: November 29, 2009 @ 10:42 AM
Joomusik
Total Posts:  52
Joined  10-15-2006
status: Experienced

The EMU… Har Har Har.. I had good fun. See attachments.

Let me work through your message to see if I can get this EMU fly.

I will give feedback asap.

THANK YOU !

Image Attachments
EMU Xboard.jpegemu.jpg
  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: November 30, 2009 @ 02:05 PM
Joomusik
Total Posts:  52
Joined  10-15-2006
status: Experienced

Some progress.. I could get the PLG150DX to work in Voice mode
but not in Multi mode. The separation between Port 1 and 2 doesn’t work yet. I have started going through your details but got stuck.

Each Track can transmit on a specific MIDI channel and MIDI PORT.
From the main sequencer SONG or PATTERN screen, if you press [F3] TRACK, here you can see how each TRACK has an OUTPUT CHANNEL and an OUTPUT PORT.
OFF = the host
1 also = the host
2 = your PLG150 boards.
3 = could be the PLG100-series XG board.

I have a Motif Rack ES and will need some more time to find these details, but(think) I know what you mean when looking at the Cubase 5 Track settings. (MIDI Channel and Port settings)

The MIDI IN = ??? What’s an EMU (I thought that was some kind of flightless bird :) ... This is the Port on which you are going to send data to the PLG150-DX.
Set this to Motif ES6-1 when in VOICE or PERFORMANCE mode;
Set this to Motif ES6-2 when in MIXING mode.

I couldn’t set this to Port 2, because only Port 1 was listed. See attachment. I thought this was because only 1 MIDI Channel
was activated in my Windows XP 32. I checked the MIDI driver settings
in the system control panel and couldn’t find any way of activating
more “MIDI in” Ports.

I uninstalled the Yamaha MIDI USB driver and re-installed it - no change. Here’s where I got stuck…

File Attachments
PLG150DX MIDI Ports.docx  (File Size: 22KB - Downloads: 252)
  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: December 03, 2009 @ 06:37 AM
nbadesign
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Total Posts:  994
Joined  08-19-2007
status: Guru
Joomusik - 30 November 2009 02:05 PM

I couldn’t set this to Port 2, because only Port 1 was listed. See attachment. I thought this was because only 1 MIDI Channel
was activated in my Windows XP 32. I checked the MIDI driver settings
in the system control panel and couldn’t find any way of activating
more “MIDI in” Ports.

I uninstalled the Yamaha MIDI USB driver and re-installed it - no change. Here’s where I got stuck…

If you could only see one port, you should go to Control panel and find Yamaha MIDI USB driver icon. When you double click it, you should see the similar settings as those in the picture I have attached.
Probably you are not set all four ports, so click to check circles as same as in the picture. Also, you should check Thru ON/OFF option (it isn’t checked in the picture).
Now, you should be able to see all four ports for inputs and outputs.

Alex

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: December 03, 2009 @ 06:38 AM
nbadesign
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Total Posts:  994
Joined  08-19-2007
status: Guru
Joomusik - 30 November 2009 02:05 PM

I couldn’t set this to Port 2, because only Port 1 was listed. See attachment. I thought this was because only 1 MIDI Channel
was activated in my Windows XP 32. I checked the MIDI driver settings
in the system control panel and couldn’t find any way of activating
more “MIDI in” Ports.

I uninstalled the Yamaha MIDI USB driver and re-installed it - no change. Here’s where I got stuck…

If you could only see one port, you should go to Control panel and find Yamaha MIDI USB driver icon. When you double click it, you should see the similar settings as those in the picture I have attached.
Probably you are not set all four ports, so click to check circles as same as in the picture. Also, you should check Thru ON/OFF option (it isn’t checked in the picture).
Now, you should be able to see all four ports for inputs and outputs.

Alex

Image Attachments
Yamaha-USB-MIDI-driver.jpg
  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: December 03, 2009 @ 11:37 AM
Joomusik
Total Posts:  52
Joined  10-15-2006
status: Experienced

Thanks Alex. I have the latest Yamaha USB Driver installed
(Version 2.2.4). There are 3 fields for making settings.
On the center field, there is only one “MIDI in” port I can activate.
See attached pic of my current setting. Also there’s only 1 number on the top blinking. I think you were referring to this field.

When I checked “thru ON”, 4 “MIDI in” ports show up in the right field.
When I activate those 4 ports on the right field, there are still
no additional MIDI in ports visible in DX Simulator.

Still no change..

Have you got any other ideas ??

File Attachments
Yamaha USB MIDI IN.docx  (File Size: 34KB - Downloads: 282)
  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: December 04, 2009 @ 02:42 AM
Bad_Mister
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Total Posts:  36648
Joined  07-30-2002
status: Moderator

You set the PORT NO. to 2 as follows:

On the Motif-Rack ES front panel:
Press [UTILITY]
PAGE [>] RIGHT until you reach the [PLG1Sys] screen
Cursor DOWN to “Port No.”
set it to PORT 2

The computer will be sending OUT as indicated in the left panel on
PORT 1 = PORT 1
PORT 2 = PORT 2
PORT 3 = PORT 3
PORT 4 = PORT 4

In your screen shot the COMPUTER OUT (left panel) is using PORT 1 to communicate to the internal Motif-Rack ES; it is using PORT 2 to communicate with the PLG150 boards.

In the center panel only PORT 1 is shown because the rack only requires a single PORT connected to the computer’s MIDI IN

In the third panel when THRU is ON any device plugged to the MIDI IN jack on the back of the Motif-Rack XS is merged to PORT 1 and will arrive in the computer on PORT 1.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: December 04, 2009 @ 08:49 AM
Joomusik
Total Posts:  52
Joined  10-15-2006
status: Experienced

PC:
USB MIDI driver and settings should be OK so that
MIDI data can be sent via Port 2.

Motif Rack ES
MIDI port is now set to Port 2.

PLG150DX and DX Simulator

Referring to your below statement I have no MIDI in Port 2,
shown in the DX Simulator screen that I attached.
All I can choose is MIDI in Port 1.

The MIDI IN = ??? What’s an EMU (I thought that was some kind of flightless bird :) ... This is the Port on which you are going to send data to the PLG150-DX.
Set this to Motif ES6-1 when in VOICE or PERFORMANCE mode;
Set this to Motif ES6-2 when in MIXING mode.

The board works in voice mode and I think this is the last thing
that needs to be solved so that I can use it in Multi mode,too..

File Attachments
PLG150 Next.docx  (File Size: 22KB - Downloads: 278)
  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: December 06, 2009 @ 12:54 PM
Joomusik
Total Posts:  52
Joined  10-15-2006
status: Experienced

It works !!!

I have attached the settings that worked for me.

I was very close to selling my PLG150DX.

Thanks for all your help.

Jo

File Attachments
PLG150 Settings 100%.pdf  (File Size: 594KB - Downloads: 575)
  [ Ignore ]  


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