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Viewing topic "Issue w/ FEG & AEG filters re-setting themselves Song Mode"

Posted on: October 08, 2009 @ 08:10 PM
Total Posts:  52
Joined  07-08-2008
status: Experienced

I just copyed a custom filtered voice to track 1 in Song mode

I had to make a couple minor adustments to the filters once I copied the patch over and then it sounded like it’s supposed to.

The issue starts when I switch to another song then back to the one I’m copied the patch to.  The Decay in the AEG section keeps zeroing out every time I switch songs causeing the patch envelopes to close up on me.

I probably wouldn’t worry about & just deal with the hassle of re-tewaking the decay but this song is a seagway so I need to have the patch up and running right as soon as I select the song.

Any ideas? 


  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: October 09, 2009 @ 11:31 AM
Total Posts:  2688
Joined  03-07-2008
status: Guru

I’m not entirely sure about why this is happening (I don’t really edit my voices on the ES these days) but check the section entitled Creating Mixing Voices exclusively for Songs/Patterns on page 105 of the ES User manual - this may provide a solution.

The text at the start of the section suggests this might be suitable for what you describe:

“If you assign User Voices to your Song or Pattern and then edit them (in the Voice Edit mode), the Voices may sound different than expected. This convenient feature lets you create dedicated Mixing Voices for your songs and Patterns — ensuring that the Voices will play exactly as they were edited for the Song/Pattern.”


  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: October 09, 2009 @ 11:54 AM
Total Posts:  3345
Joined  01-18-2003
status: Guru

This may sound silly, but did you store the Voice to the Mix?

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: October 09, 2009 @ 07:44 PM
Total Posts:  14986
Joined  07-26-2002
status: Legend

Earl (The Dukester),

I was also going to suggest that the problem was that the poster did not store his edits to his song mix.

Whenever you edit any user settings on the Motif ES you are actually editing a copy of that voice, performance, mix, etc. in an Edit Buffer rather than the stored data. This allows you to easily abandon any changes you made if you somehow screw it up so bad you don’t want to have to manually back out a bunch of changes. Once you have the program (in this case the song mix) the way you want it, you can store the contents of the Edit Buffer by pressing the [STORE] button.


Brad Weber

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: October 11, 2009 @ 12:06 PM
Total Posts:  36648
Joined  07-30-2002
status: Moderator

It has to do with HOW you are editing the DECAY parameter. Let me see if I can explain.

The Assignable A and Assignable B Knobs are global devices, that, by default, allow you to OFFSET the parameter assigned to them. By default, this is AEG DECAY and AEG SUSTAIN… I’m sure the thinking was to provide a performer real time assess to Attack, Decay, Sustain and Release (the old time analog stand-by for Envelope Generator control). Attack and Release are always available on knobs in the Control section.

However, the parameter function that the AS A and AS B knobs are controlling are not storeable, they only are realtime OFFSET parameters - the purpose is to use these to adjust the Voice’s envelope during a musical performance. They give you quick access to the assigned parameter - offsetting it from the stored value - allowing you to increase (+) adding to or decrease (-0) subtracting from the stored value for the assigned parameter.

You are literally adding to or subtracting from the stored value of that parameter. However, the Voice will always reset to its “stored” envelope (in this case) when the program is recalled. The OFFSET will be reset.

If you want to permanently edit the Amplitude Envelope Generator DECAY parameters it is highly recommended that you do so at the actual parameter within the VOICE (and not by this offset parameter).

Therefore if you have edited the VOICE using the “quick access” offset parameters for ASSIGN A and ASSIGN B, these will automatically be returned to +0 when the MIXING setup is recalled.  This is due to the RESET CONTROLLER COMMAND that is automatically sent when a Program is recalled. (see attached graphic). In MIDI when you first recall a program this command is sent… This is exactly what happens when you move away and come back, for example. The Pitch Bend wheel is centered the Foot Controller is maximum, the Mod Wheel is reset, etc (see the list).

You can get around this by either
1) actually editing the AEG DECAY parameter of the Voice in question by going into VOICE EDIT (complex) because instead of just one parameter the AEG DECAY can be as many as four (one for each Element). While the AEG DECAY OFFSET offsets all Elements together… editing the Voice means you will have to edit each individually


2) Inserting a Control Change command on the track to edit the controller. (This will accomplish editing and storing the value for the AS A knob within the SONG data).
The Assignable A (AEG DECAY) defaults to cc018
The Assignable B (AEG SUSTAIN) default to cc019

So, for example, if you wanted to change the “AEG DECAY” of the VOICE assigned to a specific track so that it would be set to +63 - which is an “offset” to the original Decay setting of the envelope, you could INSERT a CONTROL CHANGE command at Measure 001, to control this

Press [EDIT] from the main SONG screen
Press [F5] INSERT
Set the CTRL NO. = 018
Set the DATA = 127

Because the parameter is an OFFSET the values run from -64 through 0 (normal) up to +63

The values for Controllers run from 0 through 127 (with 64 being in the middle or ‘normal’ or no change from the original parameter within the Voice)

_ if Assign A is -64 that would be the same as cc018 = 0
_ if Assign A is 0 that would be the same as cc018 = 64
_ if Assign A is +63 that would be the same as cc018 = 127

Hope that helps.

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