Just purchased an XS 61 from Sweetwater and received several thousand new samples from them and this site and motifmemory.

I have several basic questions, not readily answered in the manual regarding user memory, user banks, and DIMMS.

1) When loading new samples from a USB thumb stick, the samples go into a selected User bank in the on board DIMMS, which do or do not hold the samples when the XS is turned off?

2) The maximum number of samples that can be loaded are determined by the memory limit of the on board DIMMS, which is 1 Gig. Correct or not correct?

3) Is it true that the XS can not hold any NEW samples permanently in USER Banks memory, except for those held in a connected USB memory stick?

I am asking these questions because I would like to load samples which stay in the USER memory when the XS is turned off, if possible.  Is it the case that the USER banks can only hold samples permanently for those on board samples in its ROM memory?

Next, because I literally have 4000 samples, I need to be absolutely sure of the memory limit for loaded samples, which means I need to carefully select which samples I want and load only those.  I do not want to overload the XS with useless sound patches or samples and run out out memory.

1 - Your samples (stored as waveforms in the Yamaha Motif XS architecture) will be lost when you power down. You need to reload these after power has been cycled.

2 - Your memory ammount does not define the total amount of samples, it defines total amount of sample time.
The maximum number of waveforms is 1024.
The total amount of sample time depends on how much memory you have (max 1GB) and the sample quality (sampling frequency, mono/stereo etc).

3 - What you store on your DIMM’S, will be lost when you power down (loaded samples etc).
User banks that use waveforms from the onboard ROM should work fine, even after a power cycle.

There is an AutoLoad feature, that enables your Motif XS to load a file from your USB mem during power up.

/M

Thanks a lot. I just found autoload in the manual.  For live performing of a prerecorded midi file(s) of a song(s) that use 16 parts drawn from the various banks, including the user banks, it seems that I will probably use autoload, to load in the required voices used in the midi file(s) from the USB thumb drive into the user banks. Complicated? I hope it won’t take longer than a half hour.

If I am correct, the USER banks hold just 384 extra voices, which is a bit limiting.  However, with the 1024 voices and 64 drum kits on board, I should be OK.

My extra USER bank sounds will be Analog Synths, PAds, and Orchestra sounds.  It may take me up to one month to select from the 4000 extra sounds that I acquired. 

I credit Sweetwater, Motifmemory.com, and this site for all the extra sounds I obtained, most of them free.

Hi!

With reference from the user manual (page 297).

Samples
Up to 1,024 Waveforms (Multi Samples)
Up to 128 Key Banks per Waveform
Up to 4,096 Key Banks

Sample Length
Mono: 32 MB
Stereo: 64 MB

Sampling Time
44.1kHz: 6 min. 20 sec.
22.05kHz: 12 min. 40 sec.
11.025kHz: 25 min. 20 sec.
5.0125kHz: 55 min. 40 sec.

/M

Multi76 - 12 August 2009 10:55 AM

Hi!
Sample Length
Mono: 32 MB
Stereo: 64 MB

Sampling Time
44.1kHz: 6 min. 20 sec.
22.05kHz: 12 min. 40 sec.
11.025kHz: 25 min. 20 sec.
5.0125kHz: 55 min. 40 sec.

/M

Note that the Sample Length and Sampling Time figures are per sample. You can have up to 4096 samples (keybanks), which can be mixed & matched to create 1024 waveforms (user sounds). In Yamaha-speak, a waveform is a collection of one or more keybanks. Each keybank is a single sample that is mapped to one or more keys on the keyboard.

Df.

CONFUSING QUESTION

Here’s what is confusing me big time.

I received with my purchase of the xs a lot of extra sounds in the form of a .xoa file.

Sweetwater states in a letter that some of these sounds will stay in the user banks when the power is turned off and some will not.  That’s confusing.  Are there sounds that will stay in the user banks all the time? And how do I distinguish between those that will and those that will not?  If I could determine ahead of time all the sounds that can be permanently loaded into the user banks, I would select among those first, obviously. I need to know this to prevent wasting a lot of time and to know the full capabilities of the instrument.

This is a bit confusing to say the least.

That is: the sounds (voices) will stay and the associated samples
will go.
Not all voices will use loaded samples.
Because, the Xs has 1000’s of samples hard on board that can be used by voices.
So, only ‘special’ samples are loaded, but those won’t survive
a power down.

;JOOP!

To overcome all your problems:

load the voices you like, make an AUTOLOAD (=ALL) file

AFTER !!!

... you set UTILITY settings for auto load from USB

.. on your USB and each time you power on it will load voices and samples.

And you got to do it again after adding new voices.

;JOOP!

Voices consist of up to 8 layers termed ‘elements’. Each element may be an internal (preset, stored in ROM) waveform or a user waveform (sample stored in DIMM). A voice is defined via a large set of parameters which include whether each of the 8 elements are on or off, what waveform is assigned to each element, filters, EQ, envelopes etc. These parameters are retained when you power off. However, given that some of the voice parameters are effectively pointers to user sample data, these pointers will point to nothing if the sample is erased, and thus any element pointing to a non-existent sample won’t sound.

Performances consist of up to 4 layered voices.

User waveforms are stored in DIMM memory and are lost when you switch off. These need to be loaded back in again on bootup if you need them.

Df.

Are there sounds that will stay in the user banks all the time? And how do I distinguish between those that will and those that will not?  If I could determine ahead of time all the sounds that can be permanently loaded into the user banks, I would select among those first, obviously. I need to know this to prevent wasting a lot of time and to know the full capabilities of the instrument.

That was rather cyptic description of what is actually happening and no doubt, one would be confused by that. I will try and make some sense of it for you.

The Motif XS is an expandable music production workstation synthesizer. What that means is that out-of-the-box, you are given over 1100 VOICES (A Voice in Yamaha-speak is a multi-sampled musical instrument sound that you can play across the keyboard).

There are actually 8 Banks of “normal” PRESET Voices. Each of these 8 Banks has 128 Voices (1024 total). Additional there is a Bank of PRESET “drum” Voices (drums are not normal, just as drummers are not normal… musicians). The Drum PRESETS number 64 KITS… Each Drum KIT is made up of 73 instruments.

PRESET sounds are burned into ROM at the Yamaha factory. They are permanent and can never be lost. They can be edited - but you would store your custom edits to USER VOICE locations. There are 3 Banks of 128 ‘normal’ USER locations (384 total) and there is 1 Bank of 32 ‘drum’ USER locations.

The significance of USER locations is they can contain either VOICE data that you have customized yourself… or that a third party LIBRARY of VOICE data can be loaded into.

A VOICE, if we get a little more technical, is a set of parameters that tell a digital recording how to behave. The technology of the XS is called “sample playback”.... Yamaha has a multi-million dollar facility where they digitally sample musical instruments and create the sample data that make up the sounds in the basic ROM library. The XS features a market-leading 355MB of sample ROM data from which the VOICES are created. Yamaha includes some 2670 multi-sampled waveforms in the core permanent preset WAVE library of the XS

The VOICE data are parameters that dress up the raw (naked) samples and turn them into playable sounds. In other words, an acoustic guitar might be made up of several dozen individual recording of the different pitches of the guitar. The VOICE data takes the raw samples and allows them to respond to velocity (harder you hit them the louder they are), to have envelopes that control how they come in, what they do while the keys are held and how they disappear when you release a key (some disappear immediately - others fade gradually, it depends on the instrument being emulated)… other VOICE parameters include Filter settings (for timbre change), pan position, scaling, tuning, equalization, Effect processing, etc., etc., etc.

All this data points to and affects the raw sample (digital recording). The VOICE data is STORED in non-volatile memory. So it will remain in memory always between power cycles. As long as the USER VOICE points to a preset sample… you’re fine!

What may not remain in memory is the following (and we have not mentioned this point yet about the Motif XS). The Motif XS is expandable - you can add your own DIMMs (dual inline memory modules), up to two 512MB sticks for a 1GB total. you can create as many as 1024 of your own multi-sampled waveforms, made from as many as 4096 individual samples.

You can create your own audio recordings or buy sample libraries that add new raw (naked) samples to your available library of ROM sampled data. The DIMMs - which are relatively inexpensive can be relatively quickly loaded and reloaded with data. The trade off for being really fast to load is that the memory is volatile (means it disappears when you remove the power) And much like the RAM in a computer, the data, the raw samples will disappear.

On your computer your desktop environment, the screen background, anti-virus software, etc., are all loaded to RAM when you turn the power on, and they disappear when you turn the power OFF. Same is true with samples that are loaded to DIMMs.

So if the library that Sweetwater provided you has some custom samples - what they are saying is that the raw waveforms that make up those Voices will disappear when you turn the power OFF…

But just like your computer (which has a START UP MENU which automatically reloads critical data at each power up...) you can create an AUTO LOAD routine for your Motif XS.

So that each time you power the unit ON, it will load whatever data file you direct it to load.

So while VOICE parameters (those directing the envelopes, the filters, the tuning, the effects, etc., etc) will remain in memory… what disappears is any USER SAMPLE data that is loaded to the DIMMs expansion board.

This is typical and has been the norm for music samplers since their development in the late 20th Century.

How can you tell whether a VOICE is using a Preset Waveform (one of the 2670 that Yamaha placed in the XS) or is using a User Wave (one of the 1024 that you can record or load yourself)?
From VOICE mode:
Press [EDIT]
Press Track button [1]-[8] to view the Element Edit screen
Press [F1] OSCILLATOR (an oscillator in the world of synthesizers is the sound source...) as we have described this is the preset (permanent) or user (volatile) wave data that the VOICE is referencing… it is the sound source.

the WAVE BANK = “pre” or “usr”
The WAVE NUMBER = if “pre” 0001~2670, if “usr” 0001~1024

If a USER wave is referenced it will need to be reloaded manually or loaded automatically by the XS’s “Auto Load” routine - each time power is interrupted.

That is what they meant… Hope that helps.

Cutting to the chase:  As I understand:  There are companies selling sound packages made from the wave sounds already in the onboard ROM [permanently] from the factory.
Using these will result in nonvolitle sounds which stay in user banks when the xs is turned off.

And all companies making and selling sounds from wave or sample sounds NOT already burned into the ROM from the factory; those sounds will be volitile. ALL of THEM. 

So I will select carefully from any NEW sounds using waves not already in the ROM, and preload them with autoload before using the XS for live performances.  Glad to hear that preloading is relatively quick. Thanks for all the help. 

I am chomping at the bit to get deeply into this instrument.
I have to give Yamaha a lot of credit for making an instrument that gives the musician huge options for customizing the keyboard at a reasonable price.

No, you misunderstood.
ALL SOUNDS LOADED INTO THE MOTIF ARE CONSIDERED USER SOUNDS.

It is even forbidden to sell sounds that are already in your motif,
as those are YAMAHA copyright.

In fact: some companies sell different sounds that they pack in new voices,
although you can use these sounds for your own voice creation.

EVERY SOUND NOT ALREADY IN THE MOTIF ROM IS LOST AT POWER DOWN.

And, ..... please read wave-form for sounds, because we call it like that.

;JOOP!

OK, then if someone sells me sounds and they say the sounds will remain when the instrument is turned off, then maybe that company has a contractual aqgreement with Yamaha to use the on board ROM waves for making new combinations of sounds or ones with different character.  Isn’t it a fact that Yamaha does in deed work with various companies to offer sound packages using Yamaha copyrighted ROM waves or sounds in the Yamaha library?

In any case, I have a satisfactory answers to my questions for selected sounds (or waveforms, or patches,) loading and using them. As a composer, that is my principal concern. Thanks again.

If you read the posts above carefully, you’ll note that a voice is a set of parameters that determine how the XS is to play a waveform (sample). The parameters defining the voice are stored in a voice slot, either PRE or USR, and will remain after a reboot. The voice *may* reference waveforms (samples) from non-volatile ROM or volatile DIMM. As we all know by now, DIMM memory is reset on reboot.

The ‘raw’ waveforms in the XS ROM can be combined in a virtually infinite number of ways and shaped by a virtually infinite variety of combinations of parameters within a voice.

A company is completely free, WITHOUT contractual agreement to sell a set of voices that use ONLY the XS built-in ROM waveforms. In such cases you will find a number of new voices in the USR bank, which will remain sounding the same after a reboot.

You would be amazed at how radically different you can make the XS sound using just the ROM waveforms and some creative programming.

Df.

Hi,

Nothing special or proprietary (or,
once you understand) very mysterious here..

You have non-volatile (survives boot cycle)
and volatile (does NOT survive boot cycle)
memory in your synth.

The DIMMS are volatile, the ROM and
Flash Memory are non-volatile. So is
your USB drive (I hope!)

Once you understand where something
is stored, then you know whether it will
disappear across a boot.

I hope this helps..

John