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Joomusik
Total Posts: 52
Joined 10-15-2006 status: Experienced |
Hi all, I got an issue with my Motif Rack ES.
The problem is that the output of the Motif Rack ES
The other isse I have is a high frequency noise(whoosh) every time
Any help would be appreciated.
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TonyPhillips
Total Posts: 844
Joined 09-16-2005 status: Guru |
This may be an obvious question, but, do you have the VOLUME knob of the rack turned up all the way? Do other instruments plugged in the same way have any issues? |
Joomusik
Total Posts: 52
Joined 10-15-2006 status: Experienced |
Yes, volume knob is up to maximum.
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TonyPhillips
Total Posts: 844
Joined 09-16-2005 status: Guru |
Are you using Three-conductor “Balanced” cables (Tip/Ring/Sleeve) or standard 1/4” “instrument” cables (Tip/Sleeve only). The MOTIF is UNBALANCED, so make sure you’re using the right cable. Does this happen on ALL inputs on the MOTU? Do you have the GAIN on the MOTU set correctly? There’s all kinds of things that could affect this. The WHOOSHing you’re hearing is probably an artifact of normalizing a terribly week signal. You’re boosting not just the signal, but the noise as well. Try using the SP/DIF. That’s what I use anyway… :) |
Bad_Mister
Total Posts: 36620
Joined 07-30-2002 status: Moderator |
There are several factors that affect the output level of individual PARTS of the Motif-Rack ES. 1) The overall Volume parameter found in [UTILITY] > [GENERAL] > Volume (Of course, if you are using analog outputs, then the MAIN VOLUME knob is in play - it is not if you are using a digital output). 2) The OUTPUT GAIN parameter found in [UTILITY] > [OUTPUT] > L&R;GAIN = +6dB 3) The Channel Volume parameter of each PART within the MULTI found in [MULTI] > [EDIT] > press [MUTE/SELECT] so L.E.D’s go OFF (SELECT function) > Select the individual PARTS > PAGE to the OUTPUT screen. Each PART has a VOLUME control. When exporting individual tracks to audio you can increase this freely as necessary. (Yes, it undoes your pre-mix, what I call the “MIDI Mix”, but exporting individual track to audio means you are going to do another mix - your real mix). 4) The Velocity of the Track as you recorded it. This final one is usually the culprit… when recording MIDI tracks musicians pay no attention to the overall audio Volume of what they are playing - they are doing what I call MIDI MIXING… in other words, when you are working with just MIDI tracks and you are putting in background Strings, as an example, you wind up playing those strings softly with low velocity so that it quite naturally sits in the background. Now later when you want to export this MIDI track and render it as audio, you are surprised that the output level is so very low. Well, yes, it has low output level, that’s how you played it. Had you recorded the data as audio your concern would have been how much “level” on the meter I am getting. See my point? No one pays attention when initially mixing MIDI what the low velocity means to the audio recording. It is natural - you are mixing as you go. Fitting everything together. In a recording studio the engineer has two mixes: one is (scientific) the individual sends to the multi-track (everything optimized as to record level). They only listen to that to check to make sure it is recording properly. The other mix is (subjective) its the one they listen to - it is called the “monitor mix”, it is the one where they put things in a musically balanced context. The mix going to the multi-track is like an argument - everything maximized as to audio level. The Monitor mix is musical - everything in its correct proportion. Well, when recording MIDI tracks you naturally do the monitor mix and have no concern for the multi-track’s scientific mix. Okay, that is a statement of the problem.
What to do? ... you can adjust the output of the individual PARTS. (You have to because you are now going to do another MIX in audio-land, as it were).
There are several ways to raise the Volume of a PART - but you have to be careful not to destroy the musical performance - this is particularly true when adjusting the velocity of the MIDI tracks (again, do this only with extreme caution). If the sound is a velocity swapping Voice, changing the VELOCITY either by OFFSETTING the VELOCITY of the MIDI performance can change the musical effect. For example, OFFSETTING the velocity on a velocity swapping bass sound or on a velocity swapping snare drum would alter the musical intention. The best way to deal with this whole thing (and it only comes with experience) is to recognize as a musician doing MIDI tracks you play one way - with no attention to overall audio output… and that way has really nothing to do with the engineering credo of getting great level on every audio track. This is because you are mixing (when you do the MIDI tracks) and then mixing again (when you now want to render the MIDI tracks to audio). If you know that in advance you can prepare for that when you are doing your initial tracking session.
VELOCITY OFFSET: you can offset the velocity of an incoming MIDI stream as follows:
This is their purpose. If you look at your track data, and using the backing Strings as an example, you find that you never exceed a velocity of 55 to play this part (now you can understand why it hardly makes any significant movement on the audio tracks meters)… you can use the VELOCITY OFFSET to raise (add to) the velocity by adding a value to each note-on event. 64 is no change but a setting of 80 will increase the velocity of all incoming data by making it play as if you had added 16 to each velocity value… So if you determine that in order to get good audio record level from this string part you may need to significantly raise the velocity of the performance data. I would recommend that you first attempt to raise the PART’s Channel Volume first, and use the VELOCITY OFFSET as the last resort to fix the output level of a pre-mixed MIDI performance. Hope that helps. Image Attachments
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Joomusik
Total Posts: 52
Joined 10-15-2006 status: Experienced |
Thanks Tony and Bad Mister. I am again imressed by the great help you are giving.
@Tony: I use the normal Jack cables with 2 poles and not 3.
@Bad Mister: I need to study your comments carefully.
Thanks again Jo |
Joomusik
Total Posts: 52
Joined 10-15-2006 status: Experienced |
@Bad Mister: Before I start testing the items 3 and 4,
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Bad_Mister
Total Posts: 36620
Joined 07-30-2002 status: Moderator |
It is not that time consuming (lol) it took me 10 times longer to describe than it does to do it. You simply have to know where it is. Yes you can do it with the Editor - see screen shot below: (Again you have to know where to find it). To change the Volume of the PART simply move the Fader (easy enough) To change the VELOCITY OFFSET and VELOCITY DEPTH you have to click “DETAIL” right below the Fader to open the Detail parameters of the PART in question; select the “NOTE/VEL” tab. Image Attachments
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Joomusik
Total Posts: 52
Joined 10-15-2006 status: Experienced |
I should have mentionned that I use the Multi Part Editor. Sorry.
Anyhow, thanks for all your help an time.
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Joomusik
Total Posts: 52
Joined 10-15-2006 status: Experienced |
I found out something else that amazes me..
This tells me that the noise is fed from the power supply/converter or cable into my monitoring setup.
On the other hand if I render only the Motif Rack ES without
I learned how to maxomize the volume coming out of the Motif Rack ES, but the background noise still seems excessive to me. Any recommendations ??? Jo |
Bad_Mister
Total Posts: 36620
Joined 07-30-2002 status: Moderator |
I cannot hear the noise but it sounds to me like it is ground noise induced into your USB cable. You may want to invest in stereo channel ground lift DI box (hum eliminator). There are many on the market. The Motif-Rack ES is extremely quiet by itself, however, if you are getting a constant noise it is most likely through the computer <-> USB connection inducing noise into the audio system. Not sure what type of computer you are using but the best and recommended way to rid systems of this problem is by running the audio through a Hum Eliminator circuit You can see if this is truly the problem by leaving the audio connection of the Rack ES to your sound system and disconnect the USB cable if the noise disappears then you will know. I’ve never heard any noise coming from the Motif-Rack ES itself. I have owned more than a dozen computers, and the USB connections between computers and whatever audio device is a notorius source of all kinds of noise. You can hear the drive access activity through your audio chain… There are some simple solutions to ground problems but not knowing where in the world you are located, I hesitate to recommend any but the safest and most professional. Do a search for 2-channel hum eliminator boxes… it will serve you well. |
hdreamer
Total Posts: 221
Joined 12-30-2007 status: Enthusiast |
I didn’t read the whole thread but I guess this might help. You said that you have noise problems - buzzing, humming…
hope it helps.. Image Attachments
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Bad_Mister
Total Posts: 36620
Joined 07-30-2002 status: Moderator |
Yes, that is just the kind of thing you do not want to recommend as this can be very dangerous without analyzing exactly what is the cause of the ground problem. A ground problem can be very simple (in some cases) and very complex in others… You would not want to recommend something that is not an electronically approved solution, would you? I get nervous just looking at your solution. I promise not to tell any electricians about it if you will admit that this is your own obviously home-cooked solution to an electrical problem… which you probably should not be recommending to someone who may be in an entirely different part of the world than you. Okay? Yikes....! |
hdreamer
Total Posts: 221
Joined 12-30-2007 status: Enthusiast |
Well :) I’m not electrician that’s for sure but this solved my problem. I asked in a shop if I plug my laptop through these things will that be OK, and they said YES. The noise is gone and electricity keeps going through an extended chord (those little things). It’s not actually complicated and not dangerous also. Of course, it would be better not to have these extra plugs, but it works.
CAUTION: The picture I presented is home made cooking. It works with me in Europe but may not work with you somewhere else. Before doing this, get advice from your nearest electrician! |
Joomusik
Total Posts: 52
Joined 10-15-2006 status: Experienced |
First of all I come from Germany. We have those 3 Pole
@Bad Mister: I found some Hum Eliminators for about 80 USD,
@hddreamer: thanks for the pics. I travel to the US at least twice a year. I’ve seen and used these adaptors. Where do you connect them to ? Is it for the power supply of your PC or the Rack ? I will ask my Electrician for advice before taking any unusual action on that. Thanks for your help. I hope I will fully solve this soon. Jo |