In “All Voice” I have files called “Voices 1”, “Voices 2”, etc. I have not created a Directory Folder yet. When I use the File Utility for my Motif 6, the .W2V files are around 278 kB, and the .W3V (invisible) files are typically 5kB.
However, for some reason, one of my .W3V (invisible) Voice files has a file size of 1,740kB. There is no way that I know of that I can get into that file to see its contents. By the way, the Voice Editor .W2E files are also around 278kB, and the .W3E (invisible) Voice Editor files are 5k - just as I suppose they should match the Voice files. I had a lot of samples, but I somehow recently lost them all. They can’t have anything to do with this problem, because sample data is stored elsewhere. 

Another problem - When I go to the destination page in the Integrated Sampling mode, the manual says if you do not designate a voice number to that sample, the sample will be available to any voice you choose to designate it to later. But when I set the sample voice destination parameter to “Off”, it still initializes whatever user voice is chosen at that time.
Thanks a bunch for any input!
Dave

An ALL file and an ALL VOICE file contains the relevant data for the voices you have programmed and both include any sample data. The file size difference woudl be explained by this. the classic has as standard 4Mb of RAM expandable to 64 Mb so even an unexpanded motif classic can handle this amount of sample data.

Hope that helps

Thank you Wellie.
I’m going to challenge the old saying “There’s no such thing as a stupid question!”
First of all, I’m assuming that a “Voice Editor” file has the same voices and is the same file size as its corresponding “All Voice” file.
(I have never used an “All” file to download to my computer via the File Utility. By the way, I have 64MB worth of SIMMs chips).
So is what you are telling me is that the file size of each “Voice Editor” (invisible) file created can be different, depending upon how many samples are allocated to voices in its corresponding “All Voice” file? This seems odd, because I use some samples in voices in more than one “All Voice” file. So why would the Motif 6 include all sample data in one particular “Voice Editor” (invisible) file and no other “Voice Editor” file?
When I use the File Utility to view the contents my memory card, all .W2S and ,W3S sample files appear separately on the list from my .W2V/.W3V Voice files, .W2S/.W3S Song files, and W2E/.W3E “Voice Editor” files. So, again, why would my memory card contents show (apparently all)my sample data only in one of my .W3E (invisible)”Voice Editor” files? The answer may lay in the fact that I use the same samples in other “All Voice” files. Maybe if I create and use some new samples for other “All Voice” files, their sample file size data will be include in their corresponding “Voice Editor” files. Have I done my job to confuse you?
Thanks again!
Dave

A standard all voice file which does not use samples will pretty much be the same size as any other voice file which doesn’t use samples. (You are right to point out that there are two associated files involved and both must be in the same directory in order for the voices to load)
As soon as you start adding samples, the size of the file increases.
I have some sound collections which utilise most of the available RAM on my Motif - I don’t often load them because they take so long to load!!
I do not think that two voices using the same sample would mean two copies of that sample are saved on to the Smart Media card.

If you load a set of voices which rely on samples, after doing a power off and on the samples will have gone, but the voice data will remain and some of the voices will then not play back as intended (But may still make some sound, depending on whether they utilised any of the internal ROM sounds)

It may be more beneficial to explore what you are trying to do and why you need to know the info you are asking about since there may well be a more direct answer. If you are simply asking out of curiosity, then take a scientific approach and do some experimentation with files and so on.

Thanks for your info. My question is not out of curiosity. But I have decided to make things simple and buy a SCSI CD-RW sample downloader from scsiforsamples com. They’re about $100 for everything including a terminator and cable and instructions and are compatable with the Motif Classic Series. Can’t beat that with a stick!

Here is another dumb question that should be easy to answer. I have a Smart Media Card writer and Reader, but I can’t figure out how to make a backup copy of one card to another (both 128MB). Since the Smart Card to be copied obviously includes all samples (I can see that by looking at the list of files when I use the Editor Utility), my reader for some reason can’t seem to handle all the memory. So what I have done is download my card memory via the Motif USB through the File Utility to a computer file, and transmitted only the Voice Editor files back to the Motif through USB, and it works just fine.I have noticed once a Voice Editor file is loaded back into the Motif, all corresponding User voices are also loaded.

Sorry for the inconvenience. I really appreciate it. I’m amazed I’ve gotten such speedy answers. This will probably be my final question (I hope).

Thanks a lot, Dave

Mate,

it is not inconvenient to try and help :) But sometimes explaining why you need the help leads to a more useful answer.

I would avoid using the file utility. Period!

The best way to copy the contents of one card to another is to copy all of the data off the first card onto a computer, then copy all the data back off the computer and onto a second card.

What sort of PC/Mac are you using (and its OS, XP, Vista, OSX etc) Windows does not always get on well with Smart Media Cards and as a result, always EJECT the card before taking it out of the drive, plus use the Motif to delete data and not Windows. Motif users who have used XP to delete files have sometimes (not always) found their card to be unreadable afterwards and had to do radical stuff to get the card working and that meant losing all the data)

Copying the card contents onto a PC gives you a decent backup. I have a copy of my main card on another SM card as well as on two PCs.

I used to use a USB Smart Media adapter, but these days my PCs have those multi card readers built in.

Hope this helps

Thank you so much, Wellie. I can’t believe I had not figured out how to copy the contents of one card to another! Duhhh! I have always saved my card data to my Windows XP, and updated it regularly. I think I asked so many questions out of the fear I would somehow lose my data by doing the smallest thing wrong. It’s happened before. I will take all your advice to heart.
With great appreciation,
Dave

Wellie - 12 May 2009 09:56 AM

Mate,

it is not inconvenient to try and help :) But sometimes explaining why you need the help leads to a more useful answer.

I would avoid using the file utility. Period!

The best way to copy the contents of one card to another is to copy all of the data off the first card onto a computer, then copy all the data back off the computer and onto a second card.

What sort of PC/Mac are you using (and its OS, XP, Vista, OSX etc) Windows does not always get on well with Smart Media Cards and as a result, always EJECT the card before taking it out of the drive, plus use the Motif to delete data and not Windows. Motif users who have used XP to delete files have sometimes (not always) found their card to be unreadable afterwards and had to do radical stuff to get the card working and that meant losing all the data)

Copying the card contents onto a PC gives you a decent backup. I have a copy of my main card on another SM card as well as on two PCs.

I used to use a USB Smart Media adapter, but these days my PCs have those multi card readers built in.

Hope this helps

Hi Wellie - I’ve not done a lot of downloading to my Smart Cards (Motif Classic), but now that I’m threatening to use Song mode, I guess storage is more in my future than recently.

Why not use the “File” utility on the Motif? Especially with the horror stories you are describing, I can only shudder to think about worse things that happen using the Motif!

Thanks!

Quite simply transferring files from your PC to the Motif using the File Utility is excruciatingly slow… tens of minutes to transfer a few megabytes of samples for instance. On top of this, in the end all you’ve done is transferred the data from the PC to an attached Smart Media Card or SCSI device. You still have to load that data into the Motif.

Buy a SmartMedia Card reader (/writer) and connect it to your computer and use that to transfer data to the SMC and then plug the SMC into the Motif. This will be an ORDER OF MAGNITUDE (or more) faster than using the File Utility.

Regards,

Brad Weber

Hey Brad,
I already did what you have suggested a month ago, and everything works fine. I had no idea Media Card Readers were so cheap (like about $12)! I also didn’t realize I would have no problem transferring sample files. I would be in bliss if it weren’t for some other problems I’ve posted!
I’m great with a computer, but add on external hardware, and the more I can get confused! The more I use my equipment, the more I realize how much is left out of their user manuals.
Thanks again everyone.