..that I just recently have been discovering Herbie Hancocks music!

Isnt that a shame?

All these years I have heard of him, maybe even briefly heard his music, but never really dove in and discovered him until now. As I listen to more and more of him, and watch youtube vids of him, Im just shaking my head with an overwhelming feeling of having been underprivileged and deprived, of my own doing.

Oh Man.....You serious?.....That’s amazing!

I saw Hancock back in 1972 or 73 at Symphony Hall, Boston when he was just coming up with his synth based jazz-funk with the “Headhunters”. He was using an ARP Odyssey and a mini along with Rhodes a D6 & grand piano.  He was progressive and his band was seriously tight.

Cat really had is own sound even back then.

He was right in there with “Weather Report” “RTF”, etc.

I think he influenced funk & jazz-funk like no-one else.....he’s a living legend.  I think of groups like the “Donald Byrd & the Blackbyrds” from that era that certainly must have been influenced by HH just by their grooves.

Before that he was pretty much a traditional jazz pianist.  He looked real studious....like he went to Juliard. I think his early work is on Blue Note, that ought to tell you something.

To me he is a minimalist, not flambouyant at all like Corea or Tyner, but he’s got this rhythm thing going on....must be a “Miles” thing, but its signature all day long.

I’m a white guy & I don’t like to pretend too much like I know black jazz-funk all that well.... but I’m privileged because I got to see this incredible period in music up close & personal.  Especially in a city like Boston, if you were a musician, you knew who these dudes were and that they were doing something important.

Even now he’s doing groundbreaking musical projects. Also, HH makes sure that the young ones are aware....he’s a good teacher and a role model.

Just my humble opinion.....Mo, enjoy the voyage.....Especially the “Maiden Voyage!”

MoGut - 22 April 2009 12:33 AM

..that I just recently have been discovering Herbie Hancocks music!

Isnt that a shame?

All these years I have heard of him, maybe even briefly heard his music, but never really dove in and discovered him until now. As I listen to more and more of him, and watch youtube vids of him, Im just shaking my head with an overwhelming feeling of having been underprivileged and deprived, of my own doing.

And well you should be!!!! You deserve to be flogged and left in the stocks to be ridiculed by children throughout the day!

Herbie has been one of my favorites to listen to over the years. I actually first got turned on to him,and I’m sure he doesn’t know this, but The Bad 1 had a band “back in the day” that played “Maiden Voyage"(at the Bronxwood Inn). At the time I had my singing group and all the groups;bands and singers, did quite a few shows together. the Bad 1 was the first to turn me on to Herbie through that tune.

He is among the early experimenters of electronics in music beyond the Fender Rhodes. I remember an article years back where he said companies were sending him keyboards so fast that he had many still in the box that he never got to check out because he was caught up in the details and features of the one he was working with.

Of all the players,piano or keyboard, “I” think no one “comps” better than Herbie be it another instrument or singer. He seems to have a sense of “where” someone is going and when it comes to a horn player,can lead him into yet another “open area” that he may not have yet explored.

I suggest that you take a few steps backwards and check out his acoustic work as well as his electric work. IMneverHO, the most well rounded player ever.
Shame on you,MG!!!

TheDukester - 22 April 2009 11:48 AM

I suggest that you take a few steps backwards and check out his acoustic work as well as his electric work. IMneverHO, the most well rounded player ever.
Shame on you,MG!!!

Yes I feel shame…

Watermelon man… what a jam! and its many variations live!

[TheDukester] And well you should be!!!! You deserve to be flogged and left in the stocks to be ridiculed by children throughout the day!

The particular thing that strikes me about Herbie’s (if I may be so bold) playing, is that he’s always intellectually alert, always thinking, always in the moment, always on to something new.

The late Bill Evans (a big influence on Hancock--and most other post-bop pianists as well) and Herbie are my favorite jazz pianists. (Bud Powell, in turn, was a big influence on Bill Evans, and it’s easier to hear this in Evans’s earlier recordings.)

scotch - 22 April 2009 01:34 PM

[TheDukester] And well you should be!!!! You deserve to be flogged and left in the stocks to be ridiculed by children throughout the day!

Hey, much better late than never. There’s hope for Mr. Gut yet.

The particular thing that strikes me about Herbie’s (if I may be so bold) playing, is that he’s always intellectually alert, always thinking, always in the moment, always on to something new.

The late Bill Evans (a big influence on Hancock--and most other post-bop pianists as well) and Herbie are my favorite jazz pianists. (Bud Powell, in turn, was a big influence on Bill Evans, and it’s easier to hear this in Evans’s earlier recordings.)

Okay...NOW I’m scared! TOTAL AGREEMENT with “ThePerfesser”???
You put it much better than I did (naturally) on my commentary of Herbie’s “Comp” skills.To “MY” ears,he always has something “interesting” to say,be it out front or behind someone else out front.

I also appreciate your “chain” of progression of players;Bud Powell-Bill Evans-Herbie Handcock. If I’m not mistaken,Herbie followed Evans in Miles’ band.

MG....when I said “Go back” I meant as far back as the Maiden Voyage album. Herbie,Ron Carter,Tony Williams,Freddie Hubbard and George Coleman made up the personel on that project.From there you can get an “evolutionary” perspective of his growth and expansion from his acoustic work through to his electronic work to today. I guarrentee,this is NOT a wasted journey. As a matter of fact, I think “I” will do a “review” over the next few weeks. Listening to Herbie is a “Piano Lesson” everytime you out him on.
Scotch is absolutely right....better late than never.
Just a thought....

Herbie’s great.

Try to find the incredible documentary (called Possibilities) of the album he made with a bunch of other folks… Injecting and melding his own style into each and every one of the genres he played with:

Sting, Santana, Brian Eno, Paul Simon, Trey Anastasio, Lisa Hannigan… etc… to name a few.

It’s aired on Showtime, I think, too.

Mo:

Herbie and his various music combo’s literally created a style that historically is known as “Fusion”.  While other musicians were focused only on one particular style, Between Hancock and George Clinton (Parliament/Funkadelic) almost single handley employed the use of technology and innovative music skills to help a whole generation “tune in and trip out”.  IMHO Clinton’s fusion was more Funk based while Handcock’s was more Jazz influenced.

If you haven’t already, you might want to check out this You Tube Vid of his Song Rockit http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPb3gDtJMz4.  The actual very creative music video he did of this song remains one of my favorite of all time.

Welcome to Herbieland :-)

Toney

LovemyMotif - 22 April 2009 05:30 PM

Mo:

Herbie and his various music combo’s literally created a style that historically is known as “Fusion”.  While other musicians were focused only on one particular style, Between Hancock and George Clinton (Parliament/Funkadelic) almost single handley employed the use of technology and innovative music skills to help a whole generation “tune in and trip out”.  IMHO Clinton’s fusion was more Funk based while Handcock’s was more Jazz influenced.


Toney

Have to disagree here.Linking Herbie with George Clinton and Fusion just doesn’t hold up.

George Clinton is responsible for the expansion of James Brown’s propositions of Funk and R&B;/Soul. George had a “stand-up” vocal group in the 60’s called “THE” Parliments (I Just Want to Testify). He built his “Mothership” from that point.

Fusion was a result of the combination of Jazz and Funk. You “might” make the case of Parliment Funkadelic influencing Jazz musicians with the rhythmic propositions that were took the place of literal “swing” (Funk “does” have a “swing” to it),but that is pretty much where it ends.

Probably The Bad 1 could offer a more detailed account of that musical period if he cared to. He was there with his band Tarika Blue.

I would also include Miles Davis as part of that period of development of the genra.

At this point I am dangerously close to “hijacking the tread”. It is a very deep and involved subject where the answers are like the “The Chicken and the Egg”. Most Christians will say “The Chicken"based on their Faith. Non Christians will find intellectual justification for the “Egg”. Or “Who’s the King of Rock ‘n’ Roll”? In the end it’s what are the considerations? A case “can” be made for Sun Ra or Ornette Coleman. Likewise, Sly, Tower of Power or The Brecker Brothers.

It “is” safe to say that of them all, Herbie Hancock had a great impact in his “experimentation” with the new tools of music. “Rock-it” is a classic example and “might” be considered a for runner to Hip Hop.
....but there again, this could hijack the thread.

Hey, Bad 1!!! Sure wish you would step in on this one with a blog on the subject of the evolution from R&B;/Soul/Funk to Fusion.
Just a thought.....

Funny. Fusion used to be described as the fusion of jazz & rock by some critics. The funk element figures later with smooth jazz, IMO.  And Herbie, Grover Washington Jr., George Benson paved the way for what has become smooth jazz, though ironically, most jazz guys can’t get airplay anymore without resorting to doing some remake of some old school tune. 

The evolution of Herbie’s playing coincides with his association with Miles. Miles introduced Herbie (+ Chick Corea) to the Rhodes piano, and Herbie went from being a Bill Evans-esque player to a more succinct McCoy Tyner-ish vibe. His piano voicings changed due to the nature of the Rhodes instrument; tertiary voicings which normally sound pleasant on an acoustic piano sound muddy on a Rhodes----voicings become more open and implied through note choices.  And yeah, Herbie’s rhythmic sense is undeniable; it’s the midwest/Chicago r&b;vibe that permeates his soul.  And add his love of sharp 11 and 13 chord resolutions (Check out “Textures” from the Mr. Hands album) and his geek love of technology (He was an engineering major at Grinnell College, Iowa) and you have Mr. Hancock.

Having played with Maceo Parker and Fred Wesley, I can safely say they are jazz musicians who happen to play with a funk band ---- check out the opening vamp of Parliament Live which morphs into “(Make My Funk The) P-Funk”; Just Bernie Worrell laying a sparse comp over “4 on da floor” kick drum and Fred, Maceo, & Rick Gardner riffin’ like Cannonball’s band.

Just my opinion, yours will vary.....

questconsulting - 22 April 2009 02:27 AM

I saw Hancock back in 1972 or 73 at Symphony Hall, Boston when he was just coming up with his synth based jazz-funk with the “Headhunters”.

Interestingly enough, so did I. I remember there was a cat (Bernie Maupin?) playing a Lyricon at that show that just blew me away. I think that memory was what prompted me to pick up a VL70M and WX-5 a few years ago.

Bob

Well, this is getting kind of weird!

At that time I was on the circuit playing locally for several years. Some clubs I played were Oxford Ale House, Gladstones, Brandy’s, January’s.....Lightship (Cap Cod) and many others throughtout New England....How about you.

Studied for a year at Berklee in the performance program in 1973 I think....Loved hanging around downtown at the Jazz Workshop & Paul’s Mall right next door...I lived over in the Fens by the gardens.

What a city!

questconsulting - 23 April 2009 07:24 PM

Well, this is getting kind of weird!

At that time I was on the circuit playing locally for several years. Some clubs I played were Oxford Ale House, Gladstones, Brandy’s, January’s.....Lightship (Cap Cod) and many others throughtout New England....How about you.

Studied for a year at Berklee in the performance program in 1973 I think....Loved hanging around downtown at the Jazz Workshop & Paul’s Mall right next door...I lived over in the Fens by the gardens.

What a city!

Yup. I was at Berklee at the same time - Composition and Arranging - and playing around Boston, the South Shore and Cape Cod. The Casino in Falmouth, Bell Buoy in Scituate, Peanuts in Nantucket, Brothers XX, frat parties at Harvard,BU,Amherst etc. I haven’t thought of the Oxford Ale House (and Dunster’s Pub upstairs) for years… Paul’s Mall - whew! that takes me back too!

Bob

PS I was trying to remember some of the other clubs we played in and around Boston and found this link: http://www.joejazz.com/vincentsnightclub/disco_dj_2.htm

This should bring back some memories.

I remember (dimly) playing at The Rat, Paradise, Olivers, K K Katys, Lucifers, The Approach, the Rexacana Ballroom and probably several others on the list that have faded away over the last 30+ years!

Wow..you guys are bringing back memories. Saw Miles Davis live. Aside from those mentioned, I really liked Jean Luc Ponty. Anyone remember him? What about George Duke?....Now I have to dig thru my old albums…

PeterS - 24 April 2009 03:50 PM

Wow..you guys are bringing back memories. Saw Miles Davis live. Aside from those mentioned, I really liked Jean Luc Ponty. Anyone remember him? What about George Duke?....Now I have to dig thru my old albums…

Late,PeterS. Spent the day listening to “In A Silent Way” and “The Complete Columbia Sessions” with the Shorter,Hancock,Carter,Williams and Miles band.Yesterday was “Kind of Blue”.

My ex-wife left me two things worthwhile. A Brass Top Hat for tips on the gig and Jean Luc Ponte. It was fair. She took the Billy Joel. I got the best of the bargin.

Not to many talk about George Duke or Joe Sample for that matter.They are both “3 & 4” respectively for “me” with Ramsey at #2 (this is of course of the “post bop” with Herbie as #1. I don’t think of Evans as “post bop”. I see his as transitional...but that’s just “me").

One of the most underrated influencers of Fusion was Frank Zappa. I did not like jazz music but in attending his concerts and reading liner notes (remember those), I found the majority of people you are naming in this thread did fairly long stints with him… among them…

George Duke
Brecker Bros.
Jean Luc Ponty
Chester Thompson
Patrice Rushen
Dave Samuel (Spyro Gyra)
Ernie Watts
Vinnie Colaiuta

I’m sure that I’m leaving several others out…

btw, apart from headhunters, I never really cared for Herbie’s ‘electronic’ stuff. His acoustic playing is absolutely amazing… stellar…