Hi folks!

I’m wondering how it is with Linux support and the Motif XS.  Especially interesting is the mLAN/firewire support, but also generic MIDI support via USB or ethernet.  Has anyone made compatible drivers for Linux?  From what I’ve understood regarding to audio, mLAN is needed.  But I’ll do fine with ethernet and/or USB if that’s the only supported solutions.

If there are some open projects going on, I’m not afraid at all to test out things.

I’m considering to try a brand new Linux setup with real-time kernel and a more pro-styled setup using Jack, Ardour and some sequencing tools ... And I try to avoid Windows and Mac as much as possible - out of pure ideology.

kind regards,

David S.

None of the new generation interface methods (mLAN and even USB to host) are going to work for you in Linux. You must use legacy interfacing for everything.

Get a MIDI interface with Linux support. You can use that to hook the XS up to your Linux sequencer.

Get a sound card with Linux support that supports SPDIF input, and you’ll have a minimal two channel digital audio transfer capability to the PC.

The only thing that the XS’s ethernet port is good for right now is loading and saving files from a file server. I’m fairly sure that the Motif only knows how to talk to Windows file servers, so you need Samba on your Linux machine to emulate a Windows file share so that your Motif can transfer files to/from the computer’s HD.

That’s all you get. No multichannel mLAN I/O, no control surface support, no auxiliary MIDI interface.

Dang! That’s even worse than I expected, especially with even no MIDI over USB - I mean, that’s even worse than crappy cheap USB keyboards in general.  However, I did stumble upon http://mlanalsa.sourceforge.net/ ... I’ll have a poke into the code to see how it is, it’s been quite quiet here for a while.

Reg. ethernet, setting up Samba might be an option for transfering samples, as I’d expect that be quicker than USB, and much more flexible.

I would anyway like to hear something from Yamaha officials as well, about planned Linux support.  As I’ve understood, the Motif XS runs MontaVista Linux as the core OS, so why not also provide drivers for those of us who wants to use Linux for DAW?  I’m sure that would give a lot of positive creds in the OSS communities.  And especially regarding to mLAN.  The Linux music communities are growing, especially in the pro segments.

kind regards,

David S.

Just a quick update ... I found out that the Linux firewire guys are talking about something called libiec61883.

An implementation of the most relevant parts of IEC 61883 over libraw1394 for transmission, reception, and management of media streams and devices such as DV, MPEG2-TS, audio, and MIDI.

http://ieee1394.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Libraries#libiec61883

I also found something called AMDTP Player, which plays audio received via the IEC 61883 protocol.

I’ll see what I can find, and will keep you updated.

there wont be any support for linux until the linux community adopt a single standard for audio, rather than the many clunky, various, incomplete audio platform

Yeah, I hear that argument everywhere.  But the thing is that is that the audio and midi layer is standardised at kernel level.  You have the ALSA layer which provides a basic low-level API for sound and which provides drivers for hardware.  Then you have PulseAudio which connects to the ALSA API for “consumer marked” and Jack which also connects to ALSA for the pro-segment.  Applications mostly then use Pulse or Jack.  Yeah, you have 3 API’s which you can choose between.  But the Jack interface is the one which is prefered by everyone for low latency audio and MIDI, and that’s what most of the updated pro-software uses today.

In that regards, the interfaces are united.  And in the Linux/Open Source world you will never find that absolutely everyone unites on just one user-space interface, as that is against the philosophy if being open and free. But you will always find that the different APIs will always use a unified low-level API.  And this is how it is today.

It really is a misconception that Linux do not have a standardised audio/midi API.  You have three common ways today: low-level, consumer and pro.  Yamaha and other manufactures would need to focus on either low-level or pro.  And it is enough to choose one of them.  All of them have pros and cons, depending on the specified needs.

Of course you have other layers in addition, like gstreamer, NAS, or other protocols.  But the reality is that they all use ALSA, Pulse or Jack API under the hood.  But for the pro-segment, everyone talks about Jack and almost nothing else.

Hi… I’m brand new to this forum…
If this topic has been already discussed somewhere else please forgive.
Just to let you know Motifxs8 USB midi is working fine for me on Linux with jack.
It supports 4 in-out channels.
I’m also using a midi controller m-audio axiom61 which works perfectly the same via USB, at the same time with Motif…
I’m currently using ubuntustudio 9.04 on an old pentium4 3ghz, m-audio delta1010 (+sblaster live +intelazalia), motif xs8, m-audio axiom61 + analogue yamaha mixer 8 channels
HTH.
Fabrizio

Yeah!  I forgot to update this thread.  MIDI over USB works flawlessly, also outside the Jack world as well :)

I haven’t tried to dig into the mLAN stuff in Linux yet ... that’s probably more hassle, as Linux mLAN drivers haven’t been updated in many years - and forward porting the drivers from 2.4 kernel to 2.6 is will take some time to complete - and especially when I don’t know how well it really works.

Another approach, which I will try to find time to do something with, is to get involved in the FFADO project (http://www.ffado.org/), as this seems to be the way to go for firewire based audio.  MIDI support seems to be included in the next release.  But the problem with mLAN is anyway that we need access to specifications.  mLAN is based on IEC 61883-6, but it also got a layer which I have not found much information about.

I’d would like to see Yamaha release more specifications to the Open Source communities.

Hi dazo…
Thanks for the follow-up!
Some time ago, ES8 time for me, digging into firewire support for Yamaha-Linux integration I’ve also clanged against mlanalsa which looks like a project initially sponsored by Yamaha itself…
So, maybe, if we’ve the.....power.... to revive it we can beg for other support from Yamaha team (whatever it means...) for XS… like doc…
My knowledge of mLan and, unhappyly, firewire in general is directly comparable to my knowledge of brownian motion on high temperature plasma masses in the Orion Belt 1st magnitude stars (!!!wtf???).
That sayd I’ve Linux boxes and Motif...and *some* software capabilities…
Maybe there’s other people who’s swearing to get involved in something…
The stone has been thrown in the lake… let’s look at circles…
Fabrizio

I apologize to the forum… I’ve double checked the word “swear” with a dictionary and I’ve seen it has an unclear and maybe volgar meaning which was outside my intention. I’d wrote something like “hoping” or whatever…
Sorry for my poor english…
I hope nobody got embarassed by that… I apologize again…
Fabrizio

Hi all… Please forgive my “massive” presence…
But I’ve seen a lot (...) of readings of messages on the Linux support thread…
Just curious to know if any of the readers has the will to exchange experiences on Linux and Motif, even in general…
I don’t know deeply the “netiquette” of this forum. If you feel like risk to go off-topic feel free to contact me directly if you care...or dare..:-)
Just to know each other better and see if we can do something together for our Motif and also feed the penguins!

To the moderator and all the pro’s: tell me if I’m pushing too much…
Thanks to all
Fabrizio

FabriX - 02 July 2009 07:04 AM

Hi dazo…
Thanks for the follow-up!
Some time ago, ES8 time for me, digging into firewire support for Yamaha-Linux integration I’ve also clanged against mlanalsa which looks like a project initially sponsored by Yamaha itself…
So, maybe, if we’ve the.....power.... to revive it we can beg for other support from Yamaha team (whatever it means...) for XS… like doc…

Yeah, I’ve had a look into the mlanalsa driver, and I had some hopes here.  But compiling it on a recent Linux 2.6 kernel seems to require quite a lot of work.  It might work fine on the 2.4 kernel, but that’s a way too old kernel for pro-audio.

I know that most pro-audio based applications and drivers choose to integrate with Jack, which is aimed at low latency audio.  And all the drivers in FFADO are also working with Jack.  So that’s why I believe basing a new driver on FFADO and Jack seems more clever, than a native ALSA driver.

FabriX - 02 July 2009 07:04 AM

Hi dazo…
Maybe there’s other people who’s swearing to get involved in something…
The stone has been thrown in the lake… let’s look at circles…
Fabrizio

Unfortunately, I don’t think it’s enough to look at the circles ... they fade soon out unless more people here also want to see Linux support and raise their voices!

Dear Yamaha: We don’t necessarily mean that YOU should support this officially.  But providing someone with documentation to work on a driver which could be distributed as Open Source would help tremendously.  Work with the community as a little contributor, and you will receive well deserved positive feedback!  Ignore the community, and you might catch the pro-audio wagon too late to become a major participant for those working with Linux.  Presonus, ECHO, Edirol, ESI, MOTU, M-Audio, Phonic, to mention a few, all have working FW drivers in Linux - it’s really a pity no Yamaha devices is listed here ...

Hi there!
I agree totally with you, dazo… I meant that some docs has been provided by Yamaha to the original author of the driver and I guess to integrate in FFADO at least the same doc is needed… and maybe some of the code already contains portions to be used...too optimistic, huh?

And I also add myself to the plea to Yamaha for Linux support…
even if I’m very very satisfied with the m-audio delta 1010 on Linux…
It works perfecly at 4 ms. latency 48khz. I know… it’s a PCI card and everybody now wants USB or Firewire ‘cause of laptops…
but that’s a rack unit with external audio path so… no laptop is needed…
Like the Motif… I’d like to connect my XS8 via one cable only to Muse and Ardour and just play… (I’ve also EnergyXT2 which is great but I don’t know how to record MIDI in real-time… my fault...)
I’m sure I’m not the only one here and in other audio forum…
I understand Yamaha position: Cubase is not available on Linux so they don’t feel pressed to support it and prefer to invest their money and resources in other fields… I run my own company and can’t complain on this…
But what if you’re losing possible customers?
Like: Have you ever thought or count how many Linux users would buy professional VST (even better LV2 now) effects and synths? I mean *native* one, not via wine…
Maybe you’re right: we’re toooooooooooo a few.
But if you’re wrong? And, more, this is a thread on Motif, which is an hardware synth… we just asking for support!
Thanks for all the time spent to read and trash my messages…
Fabrizio

Fabrizio, don’t be too modest about your language and word usage.
Yankees are less polite when they address ....... Italians.
May be they stopped at Godfather and Sopranos.

Let’s not forget that Italy was the source of our classical music
(therefore we still use all those italian terms in music).

;JOOP!

I suspect that if you were to estimate the number of additional sales (and therefore revenue) generated by the addition of Linux support and put that against the R & D plus support costs etc, you will swiftly come to the conclusion that unless Yamaha decides to become a registered charity, the chances of mLan for Linux are only slightly greater than hair growing on the palm of your hand.

I am uncertain whether any major music hardware manufacturer displays any interest whatsoever in Linux. Perhaps someone might enlighten me on this point. I realise of course that (ironically), Linux is deployed successfully as an embedded OS in many devices.

Certainly in the commercial world here (London UK), I have never seen it used for anything important (in Music that is).

I have however known Linux to be installed by one or two studio support technicians but they have the time to do this due to a predictable lack of social life and less musical ability :))_

Regards to all,

B

Thank you very much for your supporting words, Sciuriware!
I know you’re a Motif pro user ‘cause I’ve read some other posts from you on other topics. What’s your experience with Motif and Linux, if any?

BTW,in my understanding of the situation, digging into some of the discussions around about mLan and more generally IEC61883, looks like there’s not much life on the topic regarding integration at application level because Yamaha doesn’t will to release some of the details: the reason seems to be that in this way even 2 PC could exchange audio and MIDI data via Firewire without requiring any “special” hardware. Please correct me if this is partially or totally incorrect.

Fabrizio