I normally control (play) my Rack XS with a P90 using an FC3 pedal, along with my Motif ES as a controller for bank select and switching arps, etc. The usual midi connection has been P90 out to ES midi in. ES midi out to a (2 in 1 out) midi merger, and ES midi thru to the midi merger. The single out of the midi merger goes to midi in of the Rack XS.

Everyting has worked without problems, until recently. When I lift off the sustain pedal, the Rack XS continues a partial sustain. It is not as if you have the pedal full down, but as a half pedel sort of thing. This condition is intermittent, and started out about a month ago as more of an occasional annoyance I would notice from time to time. The frequecny of this has now pickup dramtically, and occurs about 75% of the time.

As a diagnostic routine, I connected the P90 Midi out directly to midi in of the Rack XS. Same problem. I substituted an FC4, and then an FC5 and have the same problem. I then connected the Motif ES midi out to the midi in of the Rack XS, and play the ES. No problems with the FC4 or FC5 (the FC3 will not work in the ES).

I then reset the Rack XS and the P90. Same problem. I can run the ES from the P90 as noted above without this problem. It only effects the Rack XS.

These tests indicate the problem only occurs when using the P90, so I connected to Sonar and captured the Control events to see if the CC64 was going to zero. It does go to zero upon release, but the sound continues to sustain nonetheless. See the attached file for a graphic of the events.

Any ideas why the Rack XS is continuing a partital sustain only with the P90, even when the control command goes fully to zero?

Thanks in advance for any assistance.

Bob

p.s. I cannot get a small .jpg file to attach after many attempts, so you’ll have to take my word for it.

It’s hard to tell if this is a sustain pedal problem at all and not just hung notes. In your description we cannot get the feel for if it is all notes that are continuing to sound or just a single not or just a few notes.

Since it matters not if you use an FC3, or FC4 or FC5 in the P90, this seems to negate any logical conclusion that it is due to the half damper function. Although a key difference between the P90 as a controller and the ES as a controller is that the P90 does do the half damper pedal function - the ES does not (cannot).

Also not clear from your setup is just how you got all this into SONAR to check what it was sending. Merge box, MIDI Thru/Echo… hmmm!

“Y” cords (even MIDI Merge boxes) always make me skidish..  but since this happens even without the Merge box, I can only suggest that you do the FACTORY SET as soon as you remove the Merge Box.

Also another thing to check, hopefully there are no MIDI turnarounds (extensions) in your setup or cable lengths that exceed the MIDI specification. Just a thought.

Also no mention of what sound (VOICE or VOICES), specifically, this is happening on or it is all Voices… Oh, and by the way do you have sustain pedals hooked up to both the P90 and the ES when you are doing your Merge box thing?

Bad Mister,

Thanks for the comments. I’ll try to clear things up.

All of my testing was done either with the P90 midi connected directly to the Rack, or with the Motif ES directly midi connected to the Rack. Never both at the same time. I was able to capture the midi data in Sonar by utilizing the USB connection of the Rack and Motif ES to the computer.

I performed a Factory Set on the Rack several times between tests (P90 or Motif ES as controller).

My midi cable is 3 feet long. I only use Midi out from the controller, (P90 or ES) to midi in on the Rack. No return cable, hence no loops.

10:00 PM update: The problem occurs on any voice or any Multi using a piano sound. I originally thought I was having the problem across a bunch of voices until I realized the common denominator was the Piano. It is an all note sustain, but not 100% strength - if that makes any sense. Maybe a few elements are hanging, and not the entire voice?

Only one sustain pedal at a time. Keep in mind that I have this problem only with the Rack, and am using a very simple single midi cable connection for all of the tests. When I run things as a complete rig, I use the P90, Motif ES and the Rack, along with the midi splitter, but all of the tests noted are with the simple connection. It behaves the same in all cases, but I wanted to remove any complication for testing.

BTW, you seem annoyed that I am using a midi splitter. If you could suggest a different method to connect this all together, I’d love to try it.

Thanks again.

Bob

p.s. - Still unable to attach a file. Tried three different browsers…

There is a size, as in dimension, limitation to the jpeg attachment.

“Annoyed” (?), no, not really. It is one of my favorite expressions - those who know me can hear me say it: “if you are in a situation where a “Y” cord seems like a good solution, you should probably get out of that situation.”

I’m not completely sure what it is you need to accomplish. And MIDI Merge Boxes are actually legitimate items (as they are built to prevent the kind of impedance loading that goes on in a naked “Y” cord)… but they are still just a fancy “Y” cord.

The Motif-Rack XS or the Motif ES when used as a USB-MIDI interface (i.e.) with a computer, can act as an interface for one external device.

So with either one of them connected to a computer via USB you can use either keyboard or both, with local OFF, as the controller. You use the application in the computer to “echo” the signal back to the device you wish to hear.

So if for example you are using the Motif-Rack XS as the USB-MIDI interface, you can connect the MIDI OUT of the P90 to the MIDI IN of the Motif-Rack XS… the Rack XS will simply pass this MIDI information on to the computer on USB PORT #3. While the Rack XS itself is on PORT #1.

So if in your MIDI application you receive MIDI IN from Motif-R XS PORT 3 and Echo it back on Motif R-XS PORT 1, the P90 will be triggering the Motif-Rack XS.

If you receive MIDI IN from the Motif-R XS PORT 3 and Echo it back on Motif-R XS PORT 3, the P90 will be triggering itself.

If at the same time you have the Motif ES connected via USB-MIDI to the same computer, it too can be a MIDI interface for one external device. But it is seen by the computer as Motif ES-1 (PORT 1). Again with local off, you can trigger the Motif-Rack XS by making the MIDI IN Port “Motif ES PORT 1” MIDI OUT port = “Motif R-XS Port 1”

And trigger the Motif-ES by routing the ES PORT 1 IN to ES PORT 1 OUT.

And so on… But I’m not sure you are always using the computer or not…

I appreciate that explanation on the midi connections, but any ideas on the unwanted sustaining notes on my Rack XS? My use with this device is 99.9% of the time not related to a computer connection of any kind. I use it as an alternate sound source in my live, computer-free, keyboard set up.

No matter what else I might do, I have a single midi cable connection from P90 to Rack XS using FC3, FC4 or FC5 and have this problem.

I can midi operate the Motif ES from the P90 without this problem. I can midi operate the Rack XS from the Motif ES using FC4 or FC5 without the problem.

The problem is only related to piano voices on the XS (both as a voice or if included within a multi) when operated from the P90.

Any ideas?

Thanks again,

Bob

p.s. the .jpg I am trying to attach is 54.3 Kb - very small. I choose the file, I find it on my hard drive and click. The file name appears on the website. I click “Submit” and I get this edit screen again, with no file attached. Same deal when using the Preview feature.

I put the file over at the still functioning S90 website forum, here:

http://www.sninety.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=1,3&Board=SFreebie&Number=440466&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o;=&fpart;=&vc=1&PHPSESSID;=

Very small as far as kilobytes is concerned but very large in terms of the dimensions (Height x Width).

I see the values are same - on the way down and on the way back up… strange it picked just those values. Is this always the case? 0, 55, 103, 127

Can you try recording the P90 pedal movement into some other sequencer… the ES even… see if it just puts out these values. That is a strange coincidence, if it is a coincidence.

Sorry, I don’t have a P90 to check how it works as a MIDI controller. I do recall that it had several adjustable Sustain pedal parameters. Don’t even know where I can get a hold of a P90… so you may want to call Customer Support and have them look into it for you.

Thanks for the input. First chance I have I’ll try using AI4 or my ES as you suggest, and will post the results.

Thanks again.

Bob

Bad_Mister,

Results of the pedal test using Cubase AI4 is over at the S90 forum where I can still post files.

http://www.sninety.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=1,3&Board=SFreebie&Number=440501&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o;=&fpart;=&vc=1&PHPSESSID;=

Same problem as before - Only using the P90, and only with a voice with the piano sound in it on the Rack XS.

I tried muting elements and things like that using the editor, but the problem remains. I have no clues.  If it always did this it would be one thing, but this has developed over time an is getting worse. I have reset the P90 and checked the different settings using the manual, but no joy.

The FC4/5 works fine from the ES. FC3/4/5 from the P90 all have the problem.

Thanks again.

Bob

Problem solved. Pilot error :/

The FC3 I was using was actually an FC4… (Doh!) A long story, but I have an extra FC4 in my bag and have been using the wrong pedal from time to time, and over different setups to make me think it was getting progressively worse. Anyway, the FC4 and FC5 will not function properly from the P90 and produces exactly the problems you’ve been reading about. Plug in the real FC3, and all is well.

What is amazing about this, is that I know very well that the physical appearance of the FC3 and FC4 is slightly different. The 3 has a more rounded pedal tip, and besides that, the 1/4” plug for the 3 looks like a stereo plug with the two black bands on it.

Amazing how the obvious gets overlooked....

Anyway, glad it’s fixed, and thanks for the support. I put an updated event list for the FC3 on the S90 forum page.

Bob