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Viewing topic "Saving voices and performances"

   
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Posted on: February 16, 2009 @ 02:48 PM
Railton
Total Posts:  7
Joined  02-14-2009
status: Newcomer

Hi,

I have recently joined the XS owner’s club and I have a question relating to the saving of voices and performances.

Is it possible to save and individual performance or voice with any associated samples?  There is a file type of voice and performance but when selected there is no save option.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Railton.

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Posted on: February 16, 2009 @ 03:19 PM
Yamaha_US
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On the Motif XS , you save all files ( everything ) , all voices, all performances , all patterns and all songs files. 

However you can load individual voices, patterns , songs and performances from those All files by selecting Voice, Song ,etc and then selecting the file you want to load from and pressing enter.

You then get a list of voices, songs or patterns in your All file.

There is a guide on how to do this, but it was not ported over to the new site yet.  Sorry , please be patient as we have a lot of stuff that will make it’s way over to the new site in the next few days.

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Posted on: February 18, 2009 @ 03:41 PM
Railton
Total Posts:  7
Joined  02-14-2009
status: Newcomer

Thanks for the response.  However it leads me to another question.... There is a performance that I link in XSpanded sample bank 1 which includes standard voices and samples.  Is the following the only way to add it without overwriting my current setup?

1. Load the whole of sample bank 1
2. Go to the performance I want to keep.
3. Make a note of the voices used.
4. Go to each voice and make a note of the samples used and the user slots they are located in.
5. Load my normal setup.
6. Load each of the samples 1 by 1 into the appropriate place.
7. Load each of the voices used by the performance.
8. Load the performance.

I hope that I have missed something and there is an easier way!!  I’m sure there will be lots of performances in sample pack 1 and the DCP sample pack that I will want to add to my current setup and if I have to follow the steps above it will take forever!!

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Posted on: February 19, 2009 @ 07:01 PM
Yamaha_US
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We wanted to take the time to answer this question fully.  There are lots of questions about the file formats that are written and read in the Motif XS and how to load and combine different voice files together.

So first you really need to understand the file system in the Motif XS.

Railton - 18 February 2009 03:41 PM

Is the following the only way to add it without overwriting my current setup?

1. Load the whole of sample bank 1
2. Go to the performance I want to keep.
3. Make a note of the voices used.
4. Go to each voice and make a note of the samples used and the user slots they are located in.
5. Load my normal setup.
6. Load each of the samples 1 by 1 into the appropriate place.
7. Load each of the voices used by the performance.
8. Load the performance.

I hope that I have missed something and there is an easier way!!  I’m sure there will be lots of performances in sample pack 1 and the DCP sample pack that I will want to add to my current setup and if I have to follow the steps above it will take forever!!

You’re right this would be a lot of work. However the Motif XS file system is actually a lot smarter than that.

The quickest way to accomplish the specific task you described is this.

Load the Performance you want to use.  When you do this the XS will actually warn you that the Performance uses User Voices.  Any Performance that just uses internal Presets will load and play correctly.  However if the Performance uses User Voices there is no way for XS to know what you have loaded into your User Voice slots. So there is a warnign to let you know there is something else you may need to think about.

The Performance will not play correcty yet because the User Voices in your XS are different than the Uer Voices in the All file you are loading from.

The next step is to load just the User Voices that are needed for performance.  There are two options here.

If you load those Voices in to the same banks and numbers as they were in the original file then the Performance will play fine right away.  Let’s say the the Performance used two User Voices - one was User Bank 1 -001 and the other was User Bank 2 -002. 

If you load the Voices in to those areas , the Performance will play correctly.  However if you really like the sound you currently have in User Bank 1-001, then you will need find a User Bank sound you do use and load the Voice there, then edit the Performance to point to that new Voice location.

When loading the Voices, you don’t need to think about where the waveforms go and loading the User Voices will not effect any other Voices, Patterns or Songs that use sampled waveforms. 

Here is really the point we wanted to make.  Many people don’t understand completely how the XS file system works.  It is actually very, very intelligent.

Did you every wonder how you could load a Voice from one library which has say a Piano voice with a sample waveform in waveform #1 and then load a sound from another library that had say synth sound with a sampled waveform also #1 and the Motif XS would automatically re-assign the waveform numbers so everything worked.

Did you ever wonder how you could load a Song that had sampled parts into into your XS which already had other songs and samples in it and yet the Song places back correctly. 

The secret is a parameter that you never actually see called the Relative Waveform number parameter.  When you store a Voice , Song or Pattern that has sample waveforms in it, the Motif XS will of course store the waveform with a number you can see.  However it will also create this Relative Wveform number parameter.

The Motif XS uses this parameter to manage loading of waveforms so you don’t have to worry about all the details of waveform file management.

So this allows loading of Sample Voices ( and Song and Patterns) from multiple libraries and the Voices will always sound correctly.

BTW, this is also one of the main reasons why the Motif XS only allows saving of All Voices, All Songs and All Patterns. If you could save individual Voices, there would be no way to know the relative waveform number and so file management would actually become more difficult. 

So try it, take for example the S700 Voice from the XSpand Your World Bank 1.  This will load all three waveforms that are used in that Voice.  Then load the first sound from the XSpand Your World Bank2.  In the original ALL file, that sample waveform is assigned to Waveform 1.  But you have already loaded a waveform into slot 1.  The Motif XS will automatically re- assign the waveform in that Voice from Waveform 1 to waveform 4 ( the next available open slot).

One thing to be carefully of in loading individual voices is that the Motif XS will always load whatever waveforms are needed to play the Voice correctly and re-assign them to the next available slot.  That means if you load individual Voices , it’s possible to end up with duplicate Sample Waveforms because the Motif XS will again always load all the waveforms needed to play the Voice even if they already be in memory. 

Hope this detailed explanation helps people to understand deeper how the file management system works in the XS.

To review the steps you need to take.

Load the Performance
Load the Voices used in the Performance to the same bank and number

or

Load the Performance
Load the Voices into User Voice slots you don’t need then edit the Performance to point to the new Voice locations.

The Motif XS will take care of the rest.

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Posted on: February 20, 2009 @ 07:01 PM
Randelph
Total Posts:  315
Joined  02-21-2007
status: Enthusiast

hmmmm.... thanks for the considered reply!

So, along the same lines as above, but looking at managing the samples:

So here we’ve got numerous sample packs of new sounds, with more on the way, some of which I want to have as keepers and load up every time.  I want a simplified set-up so that I’m only loading samples I want (less load time), AND my Voice User banks are not being constantly switched up (OK, of course, 1 of the User Banks needs to be flexible). 

All of this so that once I’ve consolidated all these new sounds, I got a set number of Voice and Performance possibilities: less can be more when faced with too many options!  It all takes time to set-up, programming-and-learning time that starts eating up playing time.

? How do I grab only the samples I like (as well as the Voices/Performances that use them) and make it into an All Voice, effectively making my own Best Of sample pack? 
->>> Can this be done within the XS?  The Editor?  John Melas Librarian?

? Is it possible to load in only 1 User Voice bank from a USB stick, leaving the other 2 User banks unchanged?  Can the File system be updated to include this capability?

Have been enjoying all the new sounds!!!  Some of the new Performances are a BLAST!  And the sound quality of the some of the new Voices are making a believer out of me-

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Posted on: February 20, 2009 @ 07:36 PM
MarcelB
Total Posts:  76
Joined  09-30-2008
status: Experienced
Randelph - 20 February 2009 07:01 PM


? How do I grab only the samples I like (as well as the Voices/Performances that use them) and make it into an All Voice, effectively making my own Best Of sample pack? 

Hi,

I just did it. I worked my way through sample pack 2 (the voices of that pack are stored in usr 1 section A - H , 128 voices). I did the following:

1. Save an All file (XOA) (set type to ‘all’) before you do anything
2. Load sample pack
3. Listen and decide which voice you like and write the voice number on paper. So you don’t have to know USR 1, section D, voice 3, just write down: 51. On the screen you see that number. You end up with a list of numbers.
4. Then load the all file you made before (point 1)
5. Then go to the XOV file of the pack, and set type to ‘voice’. Go the the XOV file and press enter. You get a list of all the voices with their numbers written before the voice.
6. Then load every voice you like to a place you want (I had 39 voices I liked and put them in USR 2, A1-C7)
7. Then save an All file (XOA) (set type to ‘all’) or an All Voice file (XOV) (set type to ‘all voice’) and you have your own favorites of the pack.

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Posted on: February 20, 2009 @ 09:02 PM
Yamaha_US
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MarcelB did a very good job of explaining the steps of how to create a “ My Best of the XSpand Your World ( or any other ) voice libraries. 

So this is an important thread as understanding the way the file system works isa key to getting th most out of all the new libaries.

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Posted on: February 21, 2009 @ 12:12 AM
Randelph
Total Posts:  315
Joined  02-21-2007
status: Enthusiast

Cool!  Thanks Marcel- not sure from just reading it how it works, will have to try it when I’m rested!

Is there a way of doing this with the editor?  Will BM please do an in-depth tutorial on this?

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Posted on: February 21, 2009 @ 03:47 PM
Randelph
Total Posts:  315
Joined  02-21-2007
status: Enthusiast

Success!  Now I have an All File with just the Voices I wanted from XSpanded 2, and the new Waveforms load up with this file. 

HOWEVER, not sure why the All file is so large: the original All File was 1.8 MB, the XSpanded 2 (with all the samples) was 18.9, and my now All file is 27.1 MB (1.8 plus 18.9 = 20.7, not 27.1)!

I didn’t use all the samples in the XSpanded 2, I only grabbed 20 Voices, many of them using Internal Waveforms.  I just added up how much memory in Waveforms I used for these 20 Voices, and it only amounted to 1.9 MB!  So my new All Voice that I created using Marcel’s method gave me a new All file that’s 27.1 MB instead of a 4 MB file (1.8 for the original All file, plus 1.9 MB in new samples).

So… the question remains.... how can I create a new All file or All Voice that’s only got the User Waveforms I want (so I don’t have a bloated file to deal with during autoload).

Thanks!

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Posted on: February 21, 2009 @ 06:39 PM
Yamaha_US
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“One thing to be carefully of in loading individual voices is that the Motif XS will always load whatever waveforms are needed to play the Voice correctly and re-assign them to the next available slot.  That means if you load individual Voices , it’s possible to end up with duplicate Sample Waveforms because the Motif XS will again always load all the waveforms needed to play the Voice even if they already be in memory. “

If you look at your file by looking at which waveforms are used in the programs ( press edit, and the F1 and you will see the waveform that is assigned), you will probably see that you have duplicate waves.  For example, Voice 1 uses waveform #1 that is Cross Poly and Voice 3 uses waveform #3 which is also called Cross Poly.

It’s actually easy to clean this up.  Go to the Voices and re-assign the waveforms so that you are not pointing to any duplicates.  In our example, you would point Voice 3 to use wavefrom #1.

Then re-save the file.  The Motif XS will automatically only save the waveforms that are actually used in any User voices. So after re-pointing the XS will automatically clean up the file and the new file will be smaller in size.

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Posted on: February 21, 2009 @ 09:53 PM
MarcelB
Total Posts:  76
Joined  09-30-2008
status: Experienced

Hi Yamaha_US,

I also have the problem of a very big “best of” file after I made a selection of Bank 3 (my file is 1Gb). I read your solution to clean up duplicate waves and re-assign waves. I understand what you wrote, only I don’t understand where I can do it. In which screen can I investigate the duplicate waveforms? And: In which screen can I point a voice to a waveform?

(Or is there a better method of creating a ‘best of’ file than the one I figured out; another method (or a refinement of my method) with no duplicate waves?)

Marcel

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Posted on: February 22, 2009 @ 11:18 AM
Yamaha_US
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To see what waveforms are used ,

In Voice Mode, press edit, 1-8 button to select the different elements and F1 to look at Oscillator. The middle of the screen shows wave bank, wave category and wave number.

You can see what waveforms are loaded by pressing Integrated Sampling.

One other tip.  To make it easier, the XSpanded banks were designed so that the first Voices had all the new samples in the beginning of the bank as basic voices.  For example in Bank 3 if you load the original file, you will see that the first Voices in the bank showcase the new Samples.  Sometimes a Voice will use three waveforms because there are velocity switches such as the Taylor

So when combining different Voices from banks together, start be loading the Voices in the bank in numerical order.  At some point you will start to get duplicate waves, but approaching it this way let’s see easier where the duplication starts.

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Posted on: February 22, 2009 @ 12:19 PM
delirium
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>>>Many people don’t understand completely how the XS file system works.

agreed, nobody understands it.

>>>>It is actually very, very intelligent.

no it’s not, you can loose everything very easily.

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Posted on: February 22, 2009 @ 05:36 PM
Randelph
Total Posts:  315
Joined  02-21-2007
status: Enthusiast

well.... it didn’t work Athan

I have the original All file that has my Usr Voices where I want them (all using int Waveforms) and the 20 Voices from XSpanded2 I want. 

I re-mapped the Usr Waveforms as you talked about, saved each Voice as I went along, then saved the All file that had all this in it.  That All File is 27 MB and should be 4 MB, and I can see from IS mode that all the duplicates of the same Waveforms are still in there.  I re-started the XS and re-loaded the All file in question just to make sure (and double-checked the re-mapping of Waveforms).

So, question repeated: is there an editor to deal with Waveforms?  I thought that’s what computers were for, to make the difficult, tedious and arcane more manageable.  I imagine there’s some internal architectural reason why, but it’s worth asking: if the XS is smart enough to have Relative Waveform adjusting the number of the waveform, why can’t it recognize the name of the Waveform (and not duplicate unneccesarily)?  The obvious answer is there could be 2 different Waveforms with the same name, but then you compare the Waveform size and you’d know if you had a match or not.

I found BM’s post on loading a bank of sounds, very helpful.  However, we still need more tutorials on file management as related to managing these new Voice, Performances, Patterns, Waveforms, etc.  I imagine most of the User Voice slots will be filled with these great new Voices, but I also need User Voice slots for my existing User Voices and the Performances that use them.

Thank you, all this new material is wonderful!!!!!!!!!!  I feel like I have a new synth, that much of the potential of this board is finally being realized!

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Posted on: February 23, 2009 @ 08:45 AM
zoueva
Total Posts:  55
Joined  02-15-2009
status: Experienced

>>>Many people don’t understand completely how the XS file system works.

agreed, nobody understands it.

>>>>It is actually very, very intelligent.

no it’s not, you can loose everything very easily.

I completely agree with all these…
XS file system is too complicated to make sense...how many times my existing songs or patterns were messed up when I tried to load those sampled voices? 100? 1000? I would not call it intelligent system.
Now I have to write down a name for each voice on a paper when I want to load anything new so I can find my old voices and reasign them.
I don’t understand why the newly loaded staff can not stay separate from what already existed on XS to make things less complicated.
I can feel you pain Delirium!!!
AZ

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Posted on: February 24, 2009 @ 04:04 PM
Railton
Total Posts:  7
Joined  02-14-2009
status: Newcomer

Hi,

Thanks for the comprehensive explanations.  I now have a much better understanding of how the file system works and how I need to manage it.

I have to agree with the other posts on this thread relating to the complexities.  Its obvious that thought has gone into the design and the intelligence needed for the XS to manage its internal storage and mapping but I feel that focus has been what the XS needs rather than what the user needs.

Even with knowledge of how the system works it is a lengthy process to compile a “best of” from a number of different sound banks.

It is apparant that there is confusion and passion relating to this topic so hopefully its an area that can be improved with a future operating system release.

Thanks again for your help.

Railton.

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