Xeraser - 27 February 2021 07:36 AM

PeteParsons - 26 February 2021 02:21 PM

The keybed on the ES just feels better. The materials may be the same, but because of the lead weights, the action seems not as light and more substantial to me. These kind of things are subjective, but to me the keybed on the XS feels a little cheaper. Not that it is, but the lead weights make the keybed feel ..... more robust.... for the lack of a better term. I have both keyboards side by side. Don’t misunderstand me, the keybed on the XS and XF are the top in quality for the industry, it is just a slightly different feel.

I’m speculating but since the mechanisms are the same and weighting should theoretically be the same the only thing that could affect the key feel could be the density of the lead. Or maybe the lead in your keymech expanded or something.

I genuinely have no idea. As far as I know they only changed the material, not the weight of the action.

The FSX is quite a different design than the FS. (The service manuals for the ES and XS can be downloaded from elektrotanya.com if anyone would like to compare the construction.) Nevertheless, I personally don’t find the difference in feel to be that significant.

I agree it is not significant. It is subtle but distinguishable.

Xeraser - 27 February 2021 03:53 PM

PeteParsons - 27 February 2021 03:04 PM

I’m curious, why does the XS load faster? Also how much memory does the XF retain on powerdown? Would it be whatever the size of the memory installed? Or is that different from the memory the XS retains?

As far as I know it’s cause the XS uses SDRAM just like a computer would. RAM is much faster than flash storage but it’s volatile (and static ram is rather expensive) so it needs to be rewritten after each power cycle. XF uses flash memory to store additional libraries. It takes longer but you only have to do it once for every library you need and the data is gonna stay there for good. The amount retained depends on how much memory is filled. As far as I know the XF has 128MB of SDRAM as standard so you can still load small libraries very quickly but you’re gonna lose them after powering down the unit. Or at least I think you can do that? That SDRAM might be only for the sampling features. Can you shine a light on that, 5pinDIN?

An XS can have up to 2 GB of optional SDRAM DIMMs installed. An XF has 128 MB of SDRAM standard, but no more can be added. That memory can be used for sampling or for loading samples from libraries, etc. The XF can also have up to 4 GB of optional flash memory (non-volatile) on two modules.

Indeed, SDRAM loads a lot faster than the flash memory, but of course the data in SDRAM disappears “in a flash” when the power is turned off.  :-)

Just curious as you have both, do you have a preference?

PeteParsons - 27 February 2021 08:01 PM

Just curious as you have both, do you have a preference?

I prefer the XF for its greater number of Waveforms and Arps, and some functions the XS doesn’t have. I find the XF display easier on my eyes, since I can select the “Yellow” color scheme on it. Sometimes it’s the little things that matter.

As far as memory is concerned…
My XF has two FL1024M (1 GB each) flash modules installed. Since they’re mostly filled, if something I want to do needs what’s already stored in them, the XF is convenient. (Although the boot time is longer the more memory there is.) But if I need a sample library larger than 128 MB that isn’t already on the XF, then it can make more sense to use the XS.

The color scheme on the display is cool. Is it more than just the yellow alternative? I find some effects that are a pale blue with white lettering are hard to read. Example...one of the compressors has the ratio button in the middle. It’s very hard to see the ratio until you highlight that parameter, then the number appears in black below it. Funny because all the other parameters have the number in black below already without having to highlight the parameter.

I’m surprised you have almost 2gb stored. Can I ask what takes so much memory? I’m thinking you have every library under the sun loaded.

PeteParsons - 28 February 2021 01:36 AM

The color scheme on the display is cool. Is it more than just the yellow alternative?

There are a few different color schemes available, and a couple of display layouts.

 

PeteParsons -

I’m surprised you have almost 2gb stored. Can I ask what takes so much memory? I’m thinking you have every library under the sun loaded.

Actually it doesn’t take that many sample libraries before things get crowded. Just the “Inspiration in a Flash” and “CP1 Piano” libraries from Yamaha total about half a GB. Many sample libraries are hundreds of MB. Throw in some orchestral libraries and a couple more pianos, and it quickly adds up.

5pinDIN - 27 February 2021 06:54 PM

The FSX is quite a different design than the FS. (The service manuals for the ES and XS can be downloaded from elektrotanya.com if anyone would like to compare the construction.) Nevertheless, I personally don’t find the difference in feel to be that significant.

Wait, is it? I swear I’ve been told multiple times (not on here of course) that it’s the same exact design but lead-free. I’ll have to download those manuals and check, I’m too curious now.

PeteParsons - 28 February 2021 01:36 AM

I’m surprised you have almost 2gb stored. Can I ask what takes so much memory? I’m thinking you have every library under the sun loaded.

Oh boy, wait into you get into software samplers. I have a Yamaha C7 library for Kontakt called Production Grand 2 which comes at about 115 GB. It’s “meticulously” sampled at 24-bit 96 kHz and it has like HUNDREDS of samples. And you know what? I still prefer the sound of the K-Sounds Signature Piano (still a Yamaha C7) that’s like less than 500mb for the Motif XS/XF. 250 times smaller and 3 times cheaper but it just sounds better. 2 GB aren’t even that much considering the waveform/sample number limit the XF has (not sure if the XS also has this but I’m guessing it does due to the similar software? Could I get an answer on this, 5pinDIN?) so it’s not a bad idea to max out the XF’s flash size and have a few big (in terms of sample size and not how many samples there are) libraries on it.

At the end of the day it comes down to how frequently you use external libraries. Personally I’d rather write to the flash a few times and have a longer boot time than go through the trouble of loading every library I need every single time and carrying around a USB stick to store them on. It’s a stupid example but I have a Korg M1 with a dead SRAM battery and restoring it takes maybe 2-3 minutes total (assuming I have a laptop nearby) and even though I don’t turn it on too often it’s still annoying to me. I’d change it but the thing weighs too much for me to lift up with a bad back and bad legs.

Xeraser - 28 February 2021 09:49 AM

[...] 2 GB aren’t even that much considering the waveform/sample number limit the XF has (not sure if the XS also has this but I’m guessing it does due to the similar software? Could I get an answer on this, 5pinDIN?) [...]

That might not be a “trick” question, but the answer isn’t obvious at first.

Yamaha states that the XF limitations per flash module (no matter its capacity) are…
2048 Waveforms (Multi Samples)
256 KeyBanks per Waveform
8192 Individual Samples

For the XS, the Owner’s Manual says…
1024 Waveforms (Multi Samples)
128 KeyBanks per Waveform
4096 KeyBanks

So at first glance the XS appears to be more limited than the XF. However, here’s the tricky part…
1) The XS information was provided at a time when Yamaha stated that a maximum of 1 GB of SDRAM (two 512 MB DIMMs) was supported. It was later determined that the XS could support two 1 GB DIMMs (2 GB in total). That begs the question of whether the “1024 Waveforms” limitation was imposed by the OS, or by the maximum memory installed, and whether 2048 Waveforms is the limit with 2 GB. I don’t know - my XS has “only” 1 GB installed.

2) The terms “KeyBank” and “Sample” have had a somewhat loose definition over the years. The problem is that a KeyBank can hold a single Sample, or a stereo pair (actually two mono samples). So the “4096 KeyBanks” of the XS, if multiplied by two, may be equal to the “8192 Individual Samples” of the XF.

3) The KeyBank definition might also play into the 256 versus 128 KeyBanks per Waveform situation.

I’ll leave the above for anyone who has more patience than I do to hash out.

5pinDIN - 28 February 2021 12:39 PM

I’ll leave the above for anyone who has more patience than I do to hash out.

So best case scenario the XS with 2GB has the same limitations as the XF as far as loading libraries goes? I bet there’s someone on here with 2GB on their XS, would be interesting to verify if the numbers Yamaha provided were due to a software limitation or if they didn’t bother testing with 2GB.