Old Motifator threads are available in the Archive.
theGmus
Total Posts: 19
Joined 03-01-2016 status: Regular |
I have created a waveform with Motif waveform editor from Melas. It’s 362 mb and contains 259 keybanks. I successfully loaded the waveform on FL. But when I access the waveform froze up my whole XF. In order to find the issue I formatted the FL1 and only loaded the suspected waveform. This was a mistake! It still freezes up the XF, and I’m not able to format my FL1 anymore. Whenever I go to Utility - Flash the system by defaults lands on the corrupted waveform before I get a change to hit the format button. Anyone has a trick up their sleeve I can try? |
5pinDIN
Total Posts: 11891
Joined 09-16-2010 status: Legend |
Perhaps…
If that doesn’t work…
I hope you can succeed with one of the above. The second one should work if the first doesn’t. |
theGmus
Total Posts: 19
Joined 03-01-2016 status: Regular |
Thanks for the suggestions. I did option 1, but this doesn’t get me the format option to the flash board. I even installed it in FL2 and installed some additional waveforms and this works fine. And when I go to utility - FL2 the XF freezes cpompleteley. I guess I will have to find someone with a MOXF then. Cheers |
5pinDIN
Total Posts: 11891
Joined 09-16-2010 status: Legend |
That’s interesting. Does the XF recognize the presence of the flash module? |
theGmus
Total Posts: 19
Joined 03-01-2016 status: Regular |
Yes, it’s recognizing the flashboard. I can write new waveforms. Only when I choose utility - flash - FL2 (i swapped it to slot 2) The XF freezes completely. |
theGmus
Total Posts: 19
Joined 03-01-2016 status: Regular |
I even found a way to delete waveforms from the flash card. In integrated sampling mode I do “Sample job 4 - Copy from flash memory” And choose delete original. This actually deletes the wavforms from the flash card. But when try this with the corrupted waveform at location 0001 it freezes up again. |
5pinDIN
Total Posts: 11891
Joined 09-16-2010 status: Legend |
You removed the module, did a factory reset, reinstalled the module - but you couldn’t get to the format option, yet the module is recognized and you could write to it? Sorry, something doesn’t make sense. |
theGmus
Total Posts: 19
Joined 03-01-2016 status: Regular |
Yes, This is exactly what I did. Factory reset - power down - install flash board - power up - utility - flash - format > result instant freeze. The issue isn’t that the flashcard is not formatted or I cannot read or write to it. I have created a corrupted waveform that freezes the entire system when it is accessed. And it’s occupying my first spot on my flashcard.
use this waveform in an element? Freeze
Add new waveforms? Good
The freeze is instant and completely. No button responds, no sound is heard, the screen and all lights are frozen in their last state. I let it in a frozen state all night to check if it would ever come out. But after 10 hours it’s still frozen. |
5pinDIN
Total Posts: 11891
Joined 09-16-2010 status: Legend |
Normally when the flash modules are removed and a factory reset is done, the Waveform List is deleted. Then when the flash module is reinstalled, the XF sees it as “new” (and says so). I’m therefore surprised that it doesn’t allow formatting then, but since I’ve never dealt with a corrupted Waveform on a flash module, I have no further insight. It seems that formatting the module in a MOXF might be the only alternative. |
theGmus
Total Posts: 19
Joined 03-01-2016 status: Regular |
Is the waveform list not on the flash card itself? I thought it was one of the advantages of the flashcard was that you could easily take your sounds without having long load times. Anyway, I’m just back from the shop and re-formatted the flashcard it with the MOXF. And as I type the flashcard is now re-formatting in the Motif XF. So it seems like this was the way to go. Thanks a million for the support! |
5pinDIN
Total Posts: 11891
Joined 09-16-2010 status: Legend |
Samples and the Waveforms that organize them are on the flash module(s). All other User data is found in the flash ROM that is part of the XF itself (not the modules) - besides Voices, Performances, System data, etc., it includes the Waveform List. That List is not the Waveforms themselves - rather, it’s the Waveform numbers, names, KeyBank information, and the relationship between Waveforms and Voices. Since the Waveform List is User data, it’s saved as part of an “All” file, and it’s written to the User memory when load options “with sample” or “without sample” are chosen, but not when “None” is selected. The result is that a flash module can be moved from one XF to another, but the related “All” file has to be loaded “without sample” to the second XF in order to access the module contents.
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You’re very welcome - I’m glad the problem is being resolved. Of course, needing to have access to a MOXF in order to deal with an XF problem really isn’t an acceptable solution for users. Yamaha needs to step up and provide an updated OS that can do a flash module format without first reading the data on it and then freezing if it’s corrupted. Even MS-DOS had an option to format floppy disks Unconditionally (/U). In the meantime, John Melas might want to revise his software to ensure that it doesn’t create Waveforms that cause such problems. |
sdaino
Total Posts: 4
Joined 02-09-2005 status: Newcomer |
Exactly the same problem here.... :( I did a patch using Motif Waveform editor, exported as XF Waveform file, loaded on the FL1024M on my Motif XF. After this, it is not possible to use the flash memory anymore. As soon as I access to the flash options or just addressing a waveform on the flash when editing a patch, the Motif XF freezes. Then, looking for a solution on the web, I have found this thread. Any other solution respect to look for and to find a MOXF? Thanks |
5pinDIN
Total Posts: 11891
Joined 09-16-2010 status: Legend |
Welcome to the forum, and sorry that you’re having problems. It’s been four years since the previous member had similar problems. In that time I’m not aware of anyone except yourself reporting this, and I haven’t seen anything from Yamaha or Melas addressing the issue. Therefore I have no additional information. I suggest that you contact Yamaha Support and and ask if they have a solution. Contact info is on the last page of the XF Owner’s Manual.
If Yamaha can’t assist, perhaps contacting John Melas might be helpful. Your member profile indicates you’re in Italy, and Melas is in Greece, so maybe you two can work this out.
Please let us know what Yamaha and Melas have to say, whether helpful or not. |
sdaino
Total Posts: 4
Joined 02-09-2005 status: Newcomer |
thank you for your ultra-fast reply. Well… the problem is not only the John Melas editor, now the problem is that it is not possible to address, reset, format or delete all waveforms on the flash in any way. As far as I understand, it is not possible to load a full .X3A bank including FL1 and FL2 waveform, deleting at the same time the current waveforms on a FL card, without having to go first to the Motif XF flash page to format or delete ALL waveforms, is it correct? When I try to load a good .X3A including FL1 and FL2 hoping to be able to replace the current waveforms on the FL1 and FL2, the Motif XF quits the operation saying Memory Full. Is there any possibility to wipe out the FL without going to the Utility->Flash page? I ask this because as soon as I go to Utility->Flash page, the Motif XF freezes immediately, and I can only turn it off, no matter of how much time I wait hoping to see it alive again.
Thanks
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5pinDIN
Total Posts: 11891
Joined 09-16-2010 status: Legend |
I already understood the nature of your problem, but thanks for the additional information. I suggested contacting Yamaha and/or Melas because they might have determined a way to resolve the problem. However, since you seem to be reluctant to contact either of them, I’ll offer a possible way to attempt a repair. The XF has a built-in diagnostic Test Mode. There’s a specific test for the flash memory module. One part of the test writes data to the module, deleting User data in the process. Another part of the test erases the test data. Those two parts might work - I don’t know, since I’ve never experienced the problem you have.
Download the XF Service Manual…
It’s unclear whether you have one or two modules in your XF. If one, before proceeding it should be in slot 1. If two, put the offending module in slot 1 and remove the other.
Note:
The Test Mode may not run with a corrupted module, or the write/erase procedure might not fix the problem. I still suggest contacting Yamaha and Melas, especially if you run the test and are unsuccessful. Best of luck. Please keep us informed of the outcome. |
sdaino
Total Posts: 4
Joined 02-09-2005 status: Newcomer |
YES! SUCCESS! Thank you so much for your help! For the community: I have 2 boards. Removed the good one, I mounted the offending module on slot #1. Fortunately the module was ok, it passes all the tests. the TEST #4 at page 104 of the service manual does exactly what it is needed in this case: reset the flash memory deleting any previous data on it. I run also test #5 on page 105. Then, turning ON again the Motif XF, it asks to format the flash memory. Just do it, and everything starts to work again as expected. I’ll contact Melas, to provide this example of offending waveform. I’m using the last version of his application on the Mac. I guess this is a very rare case of un-compatibility with the Motif XF firmware. Maybe the problem arises by the fact that I built a waveform having a different number of layers (keybanks) on each key along the keyboard. It is a Rhodes having 7 layers on the lower part and 5 on the upper portion of the keyboard. I’ll keep you posted. Again, thank you very much for your excellent suggestion and assistance.
Best
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