Hello!

I am working in a coverband, and sometimes playing with artists so I play all kind of songs from 70’s to songs from today.

I have a Motif ES8, but it’s getting old and I would like to upgrade. At first I was looking at Mainstage, but I’m not sure that is reliable enough. So I was looking at the Motif XF7 because I am so tired of that heavy piece Motif ES8 ;) I found a slightly used Motif XF7 in Sweden for $1659, but then I found the MOXF8 (new) on thomann.de for $1178

#1 So now to my questions, I guess the MOXF8 is easier than my ES8.
What’s the difference between the MOXF and Motif XF? I could see that there’s another power-connector on the MOXF that feels a bit plastic, is it the same feeling of the rest of the keyboard?

#2 I want to connect it to the computer and edit my performance-bank, I would like to load some .wav files as samples and import them to my performance-sounds.

#3 Is it possible to run backtracks on the Motif XF by importing a stereo .wav-file and activate it with the lowest key on the keyboard and route click (left) and mono-backtrack through assignable outputs 1&2;? Or is it a limit for the length of the samples loaded into the flash memory/performance song?

Right now I am not even using all the 128 performance-slots so I guess there won’t be a problem with the 256 on the MOXF compared to the XF.
And the MOXF is 3 years younger than the Motif XF, is it different sounds or is it the same as the Motif XF? If that’s the case I can’t see a reason for me to buy the Motif XF when the MOXF8 is so much cheaper. I just need a keyboard with possibilities to recreate sounds of those songs that we play and a performance mode to store them in, and load my own samples in my performance songs/sounds.

There are several things that you should think about when make a final decision.
If you need capable, but lighter keyboard than you should buy MOXF8. Also if you are prefer to have a piano style keybed. You will notice difference between ES8 and MOXF8 regarding keys, since the first is balanced hammer and a little bit heavier because of aftertouch, while MOXF is graded hammer.
Regarding sounds, Yamaha claim that MOXF is 100% compatible with Motif XF. There are lot of opinions and some forum members made a serious testing (check for 5pindin posts).
I have ES, Rack XS and MOXF, so I made also some comparisons just for myself. MOXF is very reliable keyboard and only thing that I have realized is that I should tweak sounds to have exact volume leveling as on Rack XS or to move volume slider to higher position. With its only 14kg, MOXF8 is a very nice for gigging for those who desperately need all 88 keys. And with iPad you will have an interesting companion to your soft synths.

Alex

RobinJacobsson - 23 May 2016 06:00 PM

#2 I want to connect it to the computer and edit my performance-bank, I would like to load some .wav files as samples and import them to my performance-sounds.

The MOXF can only store samples if you install a flash memory board (512MB, 1GB or 2GB).

#3 Is it possible to run backtracks on the Motif XF by importing a stereo .wav-file and activate it with the lowest key on the keyboard and route click (left) and mono-backtrack through assignable outputs 1&2;? Or is it a limit for the length of the samples loaded into the flash memory/performance song?

The maximum length or a single sample is 6 minutes and 20 seconds (64MB), same as your ES. The MOXF does not have assignable outputs.

And the MOXF is 3 years younger than the Motif XF, is it different sounds or is it the same as the Motif XF? If that’s the case I can’t see a reason for me to buy the Motif XF when the MOXF8 is so much cheaper.

Sounds are identical.

XF does have the following missing from MOXF:
assignable outs
aftertouch
onboard sample RAM (no need to buy flash board for small amounts of samples)

meatballfulton - 24 May 2016 09:18 AM

RobinJacobsson - 23 May 2016 06:00 PM

#2 I want to connect it to the computer and edit my performance-bank, I would like to load some .wav files as samples and import them to my performance-sounds.

The MOXF can only store samples if you install a flash memory board (512MB, 1GB or 2GB).

#3 Is it possible to run backtracks on the Motif XF by importing a stereo .wav-file and activate it with the lowest key on the keyboard and route click (left) and mono-backtrack through assignable outputs 1&2;? Or is it a limit for the length of the samples loaded into the flash memory/performance song?

The maximum length or a single sample is 6 minutes and 20 seconds (64MB), same as your ES. The MOXF does not have assignable outputs.

And the MOXF is 3 years younger than the Motif XF, is it different sounds or is it the same as the Motif XF? If that’s the case I can’t see a reason for me to buy the Motif XF when the MOXF8 is so much cheaper.

Sounds are identical.

XF does have the following missing from MOXF:
assignable outs
aftertouch
onboard sample RAM (no need to buy flash board for small amounts of samples)

Thank you for your answers, maybe I am wrong here, but doesn’t even the Motif XF need an external flash-board to be able to store samples when turning the keyboard on/off? Is it possible to use the samples in my Performance mode without have to load them everytime I power on/off the keyboard?

I too have a Motif Rack XS and just purchased a MOXF8, in part due to the weight and the sound set. I need the 88 keys and I like the feel (though not as good as the Motif, it’s much better than my Alesis QS8).

My ultimate goal is to use the MOXF8 for gigging (cover band stuff and some of my jazz oriented originals).

Since the Motif Rack XS has the same sound generating circuitry I can move my Voices over, but have to recreate the Rack Multi’s as MOXF Mixing patches. There are a few threads on my challenges, but the community here has been helpful in getting me through it. I’m hoping to put a couple videos together on how to do this once I work the kinks out.

Okay, I think I will go for the Mutec flash-board (half the price) http://www.thomann.de/se/mutec_fmc06.htm

So I can load let’s say a human voice or a snare sample or backtracks or whatever into the Flash board and assign that sample to the lowest key on my MOXF8 in Performance mode and don’t have to edit something each time I reboot the keyboard? I read something about Samples and Waveforms but I didn’t felt more informed after reading that ;)

RobinJacobsson - 30 May 2016 02:41 PM

Okay, I think I will go for the Mutec flash-board (half the price) http://www.thomann.de/se/mutec_fmc06.htm

When practical, those wanting to help support the forums here could purchase flash modules from the Motifator Shop.

For example:
http://shop.motifator.com/index.php/memory/1gb-mutec-flash.html

 

RobinJacobsson -

So I can load let’s say a human voice or a snare sample or backtracks or whatever into the Flash board and assign that sample to the lowest key on my MOXF8 in Performance mode and don’t have to edit something each time I reboot the keyboard? I read something about Samples and Waveforms but I didn’t felt more informed after reading that ;)

In Yamaha terminology, Waveforms are Samples that are organized into something the Motif can play.

Of course! But I think it would be more expensive for me to buy that from US when I’m in Sweden? :P

Yeah okay, just wanted to double-check that it would fit my needs! Is it possible to setup/edit the Performance sounds/banks in the computer for better overview?

And in the specifications it says “4 layers” when reading under “Performance”. Is it just possible to have 4 splits/layers of sounds? In that case, does that also includes samples from the flash memory? Then I will definitely go for the Motif XF7.

Thank you for the answers!

RobinJacobsson - 30 May 2016 05:13 PM

Of course! But I think it would be more expensive for me to buy that from US when I’m in Sweden? :P

You might want to edit your member profile…
http://www.motifator.com/index.php/forum/members/39946/
...to reflect your Location. You’ll note that I said “When practical”, in recognition of location possibly being a factor.  :-)

 

RobinJacobsson -

Yeah okay, just wanted to double-check that it would fit my needs! Is it possible to setup/edit the Performance sounds/banks in the computer for better overview?

Yamaha offers a free Editor for Voices and Song/Pattern Mixings. That and other XF downloads are available here:
http://download.yamaha.com/search/product/?site=usa.yamaha.com&category_id1=16277&product_id=1073315

John Melas sells third-party editors. They go beyond editing what the Yamaha Editor covers.

 

RobinJacobsson -

And in the specifications it says “4 layers” when reading under “Performance”. Is it just possible to have 4 splits/layers of sounds? In that case, does that also includes samples from the flash memory? Then I will definitely go for the Motif XF7.

A Performance can have up to four active Parts. The note range for each of those Parts can be independently set by using the Note Limit parameters, resulting in splits as desired. Any or all of the Voices assigned to the Parts could be based on User Waveforms.

 

RobinJacobsson -

Thank you for the answers!

You’re welcome.

I think it’s weird that it’s not possible to have more than 4 split points on a keyboard that’s developed in year 201x. Let’s say I would like to split one bass, piano+pad, 3-4 layers of brass and maybe a sample or a few that I need for some songs. Is it the same with the Motif XF? Then why is it 8 faders when it’s possible to only have 4 layers?

RobinJacobsson - 13 June 2016 01:24 PM

I think it’s weird that it’s not possible to have more than 4 split points on a keyboard that’s developed in year 201x. Let’s say I would like to split one bass, piano+pad, 3-4 layers of brass and maybe a sample or a few that I need for some songs. Is it the same with the Motif XF? Then why is it 8 faders when it’s possible to only have 4 layers?

Your previous discussion was about PERFORMANCE Mode (“And in the specifications it says “4 layers” when reading under “Performance”...).  As pointed out by 5pinDIN, in PERFORMANCE Mode you can have up to (4) PARTS.  That is all you can have.

However, in SONG and PATTERN Modes on the XF, you can have up to (16) PARTS.  And by coupling a SONG or PATTERN set-up with MASTER Mode, up to (8) of these PARTS become ZONES that can each be level-controlled by the (8) faders (and yes, this works for real-time Live performing).

Ok, I am not sure how the Song and Pattern mode works, can I work as in Performance mode and make patches for each song and load them by the same buttons as in Performance mode? My guess would be that Performance mode is for live situations and Song mode is for creating/recording songs? Is the numbers of layers the same on the MOXF and Motif XF in Song/Pattern mode?

Because I can’t decide if I should go for a new MOXF8 with a Flash-memory or a used Motif XF7. The MOXF8 would be about $400 less.

Sorry if I’m asking stupid questions, but I have only worked in Performance mode on my Motif ES8. Thanks!

RobinJacobsson - 13 June 2016 03:43 PM

Ok, I am not sure how the Song and Pattern mode works, can I work as in Performance mode and make patches for each song....

Yes.  They are referred to as PARTS, not patches, and you would place VOICES into PARTS of a SONG or PATTERN the same way as it is done in a PERFORMANCE.

RobinJacobsson - 13 June 2016 03:43 PM

...My guess would be that Performance mode is for live situations and Song mode is for creating/recording songs?....

That’s a common misconception.  SONG and PATTERN Modes are certainly used for recording to the sequencer, but can also be much more powerful than PERFOMANCE Mode in Live performing...IF you know how to use them.

See This Article.

RobinJacobsson - 13 June 2016 03:43 PM

...Is the numbers of layers the same on the MOXF and Motif XF in Song/Pattern mode?....

If by “layers” you mean how many separate ZONES you can control in MASTER Mode (as I discussed in my post earlier), NO...the XF can address 8 ZONES on 8 separate MIDI channels simultaneously, the MOXF can only address 4.  Plus, the MOXF does not have faders like the XF, so the ability to “mix” levels live with the MOXF is not nearly as elegant as the XF.

Although together the previous article and This Article are a lot to take in at one time, MASTER Mode associated with either a SONG or PATTERN is how you are empowered to live-mix the levels (balance) of up to 8 ZONES together, when using the XF.

RobinJacobsson - 13 June 2016 03:43 PM

...Because I can’t decide if I should go for a new MOXF8 with a Flash-memory or a used Motif XF7. The MOXF8 would be about $400 less....

Judging from your desires and frustrations, it would appear the XF would be a better fit for you.

RobinJacobsson - 13 June 2016 03:43 PM

...Sorry if I’m asking stupid questions, but I have only worked in Performance mode on my Motif ES8. Thanks!

Your questions are not stupid, it is clear you are just trying to make an informed decision based on your needs and personal work flow.

cmayle (or ?) - I have related questions for moving from Perf to Mix (song) mode.

questions setup:  I have alot of XF7 Performances where I tweaked Part offset parameters from the base Voices used in Parts 1-4.  I want to transfer these to my MOXF6 and switch these Performances to Mixing mode to allow me to designate a certain voice to be played by an external controller keyboard.  (reason - can’t fit my XF Performances in the MOXF6 61 note range).

Q: In Song/Pattern (Mixing) mode, do I have all of these same Part offset options that are in Performance mode?  some of the things I tweak alot are attack, release, decay, cutoff/res, part velocity response, part response to sustain pedal, mod wheel, pitch bend, etc ... so forth - the basic Part settings I can tweak in Performance model.

Q: (if yes) Is there an easy way to import these performance part settings for Voices 1-4 - can I copy a Performance to a Song and it will set up Parts 1-4 as I had them set up in Perf?

I only need to do this for about 25 songs, and I have a few weeks to get it done, so if its a bit of manual effort I can churn through it.

motidave - 13 June 2016 06:56 PM

cmayle (or ?) - I have related questions for moving from Perf to Mix (song) mode.

questions setup:  I have alot of XF7 Performances where I tweaked Part offset parameters from the base Voices used in Parts 1-4.  I want to transfer these to my MOXF6 and switch these Performances to Mixing mode to allow me to designate a certain voice to be played by an external controller keyboard.  (reason - can’t fit my XF Performances in the MOXF6 61 note range).

Q: In Song/Pattern (Mixing) mode, do I have all of these same Part offset options that are in Performance mode?  some of the things I tweak alot are attack, release, decay, cutoff/res, part velocity response, part response to sustain pedal, mod wheel, pitch bend, etc ... so forth - the basic Part settings I can tweak in Performance model.

Q: (if yes) Is there an easy way to import these performance part settings for Voices 1-4 - can I copy a Performance to a Song and it will set up Parts 1-4 as I had them set up in Perf?

I only need to do this for about 25 songs, and I have a few weeks to get it done, so if its a bit of manual effort I can churn through it.

Full disclosure, I do not own a MOXF, so cannot personally verify the commonality of SONG, PATTERN, MIXING, and MASTER mode offset functions in the MOXF vs. the XF.

1) Yes, you do have the ability to realtime-control offsets using a SONG or PATTERN MIXING setup in the MOXF MASTER Mode:

Scroll down to “KNOBS and Zones” in This Article.  Certainly, understanding the entirety of the Article is important as well.

This process may not be identically convenient using ZONES in a MASTER as compared to PARTS in a PERFORMANCE (again, I don’t use a MOXF), but it should certainly be adaptable to the needs you are describing.

2) Take a look at the discussion in This Thread, and the links within it.  While not exclusively about moving a PERFORMANCE into a SONG/PATTERN MIXING, the information is there.  It’s a fairly simple procedure.

Great info Cmayhle!

So I’ve read details in Ref manual, and your advise and links.  Its clear that

1. All of the Part related “offsets” I use in Performances are also availabe in mixing song mode.
2. Its easy to copy a complete current Performance to a song and transfer my Performance designs

A couple quesitons to continue my education.  my goal here (again) is to assign one voice to be triggered by an external controller.  I don’t know I understand mixing vs song/pattern yet.  I read the manuals, its still not clear.  Am I right that there are no “Mixing” user file locations - just song and pattern?  So I’ll create a Song, then use mixing functions to add the changes and edits i need, then save the Song and all of these (mixing) settings wil be saved when I call up the song?  Or do I need to enter mixing mode for each song?

Could I just use Master Mode? 

Lets say I now have 4 (or more) Parts in a song and I want to assign one Part to receive key on/off messages from an external controller and play in the MOXF tone generator.  The other parts I want to play on the MOXF keybed, also using internal Parts through the tone generator.  How do I set that?  Save?  Recall?