the title is self explanatory.  But it seems like I’ve noticed this problem before but for some reason it’s here and I can’t get rid of it.  I was listening to some patterns that I’d worked out for church and realized that some of the phrases where louder than other phrases (same track though)… If you lower the volume though for one track in any phrase it also lowers it in the other phrases… Of the same track.  Same with volume increases…

Seems like it would be a simple solution but I must be missing it. 

Why can’t volume be a per phrase basis… Shouldn’t it be?

Unfortunately your title is not entirely self-explanatory! However, I feel your problem may lie in not fully appreciating exactly what a Phrase is and how it and the Pattern ‘mixes’ and Parts behave.

A Phrase is the name Motif gives to any piece of recording - a 2-bar drum loop or a 32-bar piano solo… Phrases are useful in that you can use a Phrase in another part of your recording without taking up precious memory because the Phrase is only actually recorded once but can be ‘pointed to’ multiple times.

While this is a cute system it can also be a little confusing because, for the most part, you probably won’t often ‘see’ Phrases. What you generally see are just recordings on Tracks 1-16 within any of the 16 Sections that use the same basic voicing and mix parameters.

On a brand new and fresh, virgin Pattern, the first thing you record will automatically be saved as Phrase 001. The second, Phrase 002, no matter which Track you record it on and no matter what instrument it is or how long it is etc. 

If the first thing you recorded is a little 2-bar piano groove, say (which will be Phrase 001) and now you want to use this groove in several places in your composition, then you can subsequently insert Phrase 001 wherever and whenever you like in different Sections. All good. But, say in one of the places you’ve inserted Phrase 001 you now want to edit it in some way, then those edits will be present in every instance where Phrase 001 is being called up. If you want to maintain different versions of a Phrase then you’ll need to ‘Copy’ the edited Phrase to a fresh Phrase location.

In order to ‘see’ your Phrases, you simply press the Patch tab from the main Pattern screen.

Meanwhile, there are sixteen ‘Parts’ associated with each Pattern. A Part stores numerous parameters relating to the sixteen tracks you can record in a Pattern: the Voice it uses, the pan position, effects, and… volume. The Part volume extends to all Sections in a Pattern mix, not just Section A or L etc. 

So, you do need to appreciate, when you’re recording, exactly what levels of control are possible to exert - and over what - at any given stage.

If you want free-flowing control over what you record you may need to think about copying Phrases, and also perhaps writing volume or expression changes into the MIDI data - something you can do quite simply as a realtime ‘overdub record’ in either Pattern or linear Song mode.

Apologies if you know much of this already but hopefully it’ll help clarify the systems and options and give you ways you can better achieve what you need.

Yes thanks for your reply.  But yes I did already know, understand, and appreciate the phrases for what they are.  I was simply saying that a track is also a track… And no matter what phrases you reference in a given track… The track is still the track.... But since the phrases are all individual parts you should be able to control the volume individually within each specific patter (A,B, C, etc....)

Even if I go into pattern A then adjust the volume then go into pattern B and adjust the volume… The faders movements are recognized by pattern A and it modifies the mixing work that you did prior.

I hope this makes sense

I’ve considered recoding the fader movements to compensate.  Seems kinda tedious though when you have notes on the downbeat of the first measure… Also considered re recording the performance and lastly considered an idea from a friend lol… He said to remove velocity sensitivity and just record everything at the same volume.  Lol

Are you using a different voice on each pattern section or the same voice?  If the same voice, did you just play it with higher velocity when recording?

There are editing jobs to shift velocity if that’s the issue.

You can also insert CC#7 (volume) or CC#11 (expression) msgs at the top of each track on each section to balance the volumes out. What value you choose will be trial and error.

Def same voice. Lol. And yea maybe slightly higher velocity at times

The whole idea of Phrases and Sections and Parts is to give you flexibility but not so much flexibility that you’ll end up with a mess. The current ‘Mix’ just applies to the 16 tracks, regardless of Sections. If you want more linear control you just need to chain the Pattern Sections into a Song and then you can do a pass of volume changes - automated or in real time.

Phrases simply ‘are’ set-pieces so trying to force them into being more flexible is always going to be a challenge. Unless, as several people have pointed out, you write the volume info into the MIDI data.

In order to head off a headache I’d recommend you go the Song route or the MIDI data route. Both are fine solutions and a lot better than wishing the system is what it isn’t!