At the center of my home studio is a Motif ES with an mLAN16E expansion board and an 01x mixer. As I’m replacing my aging studio computer, I need a 64-bit OS to fully utilize the new machine. I was disappointed to learn that the only 64-bit support you offer is an old driver for the legacy Windows XP x64 edition - a driver which reportedly has issues on modern quad-core systems.

I’m not the only dissatisfied customer (01xRay forums). We all want modern 64-bit drivers for our expensive last generation mLAN hardware. If I’m forced to replace my otherwise perfect $4000+ setup because of inadequate driver support, I certainly won’t be buying another Yamaha product ever again - because I can’t trust history not to repeat itself.

So my question is: when can we expect a stable Windows 7 64-bit version of mLAN Tools?

Sincerely,
Martin

It is not only your computer that is aging. We sure have appreciated having you as a customer, and will regret that you have decided not to continue to purchase Yamaha products in the future. However, it is curious, at least to me, that while you seem to understand that your computer is aging but you hold your music gear to a different standard. Undoubtedly, and obviously, your 01X and other Yamaha products are aging (losing their usefulness) at a much slower pace than your computer is… so you do recognize Yamaha’s build quality.

The mLAN protocol was designed to work with the computers that existed in 2003 That is when the 01X and Motif ES hit the market. Undoubtedly, you can still get years of use of them - that is how Yamaha designed and built them. If you continue to use the computer OS that can run the driver, they will continue to serve you. And this still is a viable solution for you (and while not perfect, because we do recognize you want to use your computer for other things other than music)… and that really is the breaking point in all of this. Your 01X and mLAN products continue to function and do what they were designed to do - MUSIC. Actually, you can still purchase new computers with older Operating Systems (why? because the computer industry realizes that for certain things these older OS’s were more robust and are still useful for many customers.

The desktop replacement LAPTOP was simply not popular enough… it was virtually driven from the market by your mobile (light-weight, long battery-life) computer - which quite frankly were horrible at doing music audio. If you, like many others, dedicated a computer just for music purposes you can easily continue to use your mLAN gear until it totally falls apart in about 2035 (Undoubtedly you are updating your aging computer for reasons other than making music… the whole 64-bit thing is still just settling down .. it offers no big advantages for the external hardware of the mLAN devices you have from Yamaha… it may help you run 96 instances of some plug-in, however. So your purchase of a new computer, while understandable will negate you using the mLAN hardware. That is the current situation.

These things are not completely under Yamaha’s control when it comes to the computer you have selected to use and the operating systems the manufacturers put it them. mLAN evolved several times between 2003 and 2007. It has now evolved to a much easier to use (and much less computer-taxing) protocol. this transition took place between 2007 and 2010. In reality, very few people took advantage of the potential 100 audio channels and 256 MIDI channel capability of the basic mLAN Network… so plans to *expand* that to much larger system designs that were on the drawing boards, simply never happened. mLAN evolved to a peer-to-peer system where each node (device) communicates directly with the computer. Although you can daisy chain multiple devices each device sets up a peer-to-peer relationship with the computer.

This allows for much more “cost effect” computers to work for musicians (who always seemed to want to get the most affordable computer that would work, and we understand). So mLAN evolved- it had to evolve.  In the meantime, the two major computer platforms went through their changes… as well. (With little or no attention paid to the music-making clientele).

While you would be hard pressed to run any software you purchased in 2003 on a computer you purchase in 2011, we understand that you fully expect to use your Yamaha music hardware. And I’m sure it was in the plan to have this happen - but, sadly, it simply was not to be. Very sorry about that. Simply too many factors out of the immediate control of Yamaha. That is not to say that in the future such a driver may indeed happen - I do not know, I have no way of knowing what is in the plan. I couldn’t say even if I did know. Not sure where in the world you are located but you can certainly contact the Yamaha representatives in your country and address your concerns to them…

Thank you for your support in the past. We’d love to have as a Yamaha customer in the future but if you have decided to go a different direction - we wish you well. If there is anything I can do to help you, just ask.

Thank you Phil for taking the time to reply. It is much appreciated, but frankly I disagree with what you are saying.

First of all, yes I do hold my Yamaha hardware to a different standard because of how much it cost me! Thus I expect it to have a longer support cycle. In my opinion, 10 years is not an unreasonable expectation for music equipment of this caliber and price tag. How is it “cost effective” for us to have to keep buying new Yamaha hardware because our current gear has been inadequately supported in software? How many are even motivated to keep buying Yamaha products in this scenario?

Secondly, 64-bit computing is nothing new for high-end use cases (such as music production, video editing and gaming). The hardware and software has been there for quite some time. DIMM memory got cheap, to the point where building a DAW computer with anything less than 4GB of RAM was no longer justifiable. The 64-bit version of Windows Vista was released in 2006, yet no driver from Yamaha was released. The GO44 and GO46 (which, if I’m not mistaken, were released the same year) have suffered the same fate.

Thirdly, these things are hardly out of Yamaha’s control. It’s Yamaha that is at fault. Yamaha has failed to deliver drivers and Yamaha has been unresponsive to the resulting customer criticism. This gearslutz.com forum post sums it up pretty well:

[Yamaha are] very good at hardware but they they just don’t seem to get the importance of driver support. They start something and then...you wait...and then… a bone...and then...then… just… nothing… and you wait… hope… and wait...and...nothing.... and you write an email...and you post in a group… and… then.... nothing… and then finally something that seemed like something, but....no.... nothing...and you wait… hope..

I think the Mac users especially can agree with this sentiment.

I have been in contact with Yamaha Scandinavia but have received naught but apologetic responses. I have suggested that support for our mLAN gear be included in the Yamaha-Steinberg FireWire driver or - at the very least - that mLAN Tools be open sourced as is, along with documentation of the hardware and protocol itself. That way, those of us who are developers can try to carry on where Yamaha left off.

I think I’m somewhere in between as far as this discussion is concerned.  I too have invested a lot of money, blood, sweat and tears getting my mLAN system working and for many years now, it has been flawless.

When Yamaha announced it would no longer support mLAN (generation B at least), I was disappointed. 

However despite the bad news, I’ve managed to maintain my mLAN setup for almost eight years now (It has been running flawlessly for at least 4 -5 years).  I know I can never go with a 64 bit system but thus far, that has not been an issue for me yet.  Most DAW systems still have both 32 bit and 64 bit versions of their system and most plugins are still 32 bit.

Also, despite what rumors have been said, mLAN does work with Snow Leopard (32 bit) and Windows 7 (32 bit).  (The n-series mixers used to work with mLAN but my understanding is that later firmware upgrades broke that compatibility.  I have the n8 and I have never upgraded the firmware past ver. 1.03 as I still have and wanted to keep it integrated into my mLAN system.  I may be missing out on some newer features, I really don’t mind as I use th n8 solely for the pres, eq and compressor).  Installing mLAN on a Windows 7 system (32 bit) may be a bit cumbersome, but rest assured it can be done.

I do agree that professional equipment (like the 01X) should be supported for at least 10 years due to the nature of the audio recording business.  Most other companies provide driver support for their legacy products for a long time (M-Audio, Digidesign and even Roland).  In any case, the 01X is still usable and quite capable.

I know time is running out in the sense that it is not sure if Lion will support the mLAN drivers but that will not be an issue until June 2011 for OSX.  As far as Windows 7 is concerned, it may be possible to configure a dual boot machine (between 32 and 64 bit).  Windows 8 doesn’t come out until 2012 and there is no use worrying about driver support on an OS that is over one year away.

Hey dudes and Bad_Mister and the Universe.

Ive just fired up Protools 9 on a 64 Bit Windows 7 PC.
Using the Windows XP 64 bit mLAN ASIO drivers.
Motif ES and i88X.
Works for me.
Quad core Q6600 2.4Ghz 8GB Ram.

Hang on I’ll just hit the [Seq Tansport] button on the Motif.
Oh my god it its running.
No clicks or pops.
I have Reason Rewired using the Motif in remote mode using the Mackie control protocol.

By the way, I’m not kidding about this, it really is working.
I can’t however get the mLAN midi drivers working.
Am using the 64 bit USB midi drivers.

What do you mean it doesn’t work guys?
Check out the posts on the mlancentral site.

tripstation - 08 February 2011 07:19 PM

Ive just fired up Protools 9 on a 64 Bit Windows 7 PC.
Using the Windows XP 64 bit mLAN ASIO drivers.
Motif ES and i88X.
Works for me.
Quad core Q6600 2.4Ghz 8GB Ram.

This will be my last resort. I was aware of snanto’s “hack” - my main complaint is the lack of official updates. However, if it works as well for me as it does for you (and I really hope it does), all is not lost. What kinda latency are you getting? Drop-outs or crackles? Crashes? Any other problems besides MIDI not working?

Hi,
It works really well.
I can even run it at 96Khz and it makes no difference to the computer.
I can run it at 128 samples, thats the lowest it goes.
no crackles at all.
You do have to do your routing in list view though!
I have discovered something though.
I don’t get any audio in to the PC.
I just tried it.
I only get audio out.
I didn’t realise that.
I was just composing using soft synths.
All is not lost though.
I have an RME card in there as well.
That was the driver I was using when I had audio going into the PC, and not the mLAN driver.
All is not lost though.
I can just route the ES through the i88X 11-18 input.
then i88X out into the RME ADAT input.
Then use the ASIO4All driver.

I’ll give it a try.

tripstation - 14 February 2011 08:46 PM

Hi,
It works really well.
I can even run it at 96Khz and it makes no difference to the computer.
I can run it at 128 samples, thats the lowest it goes.
no crackles at all.

You talk about mLAN on Win7, don’t you?
You said that it works fine, but only audio? What is then fine if you don’t have also MIDI over firewire?

I can just route the ES through the i88X 11-18 input.
then i88X out into the RME ADAT input.
Then use the ASIO4All driver.

Now I’m confused. You talk about mLAN, but you are using ASIO4ALL. What’s the deal, I don’t understand.

Alex

HI,
I tried ASIO4All to see if I could use the RME and the mLAN at the same time.
I did have audio working in and out I think.
I’m gonna re-install it again.
Am using the USB for midi at the mo. That works.
Yes I’m running Windows 7 64 Bit.
Why don’t you try it out yourself and let me know if you get it to work.
I said I was using it for playing soft synths just for output.
Then I tried to record a Motif sound back into the PC and got no sound going in.
Forget the ASIO4All bit.
Don’t be confused dude.

Have a look at the mLAN forum

Read the guys post.
He has it all working I think.
Ask him questions.
I’m going to.

http://www.mlancentral.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=6&Board=winxp&Number=442424&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o;=&fpart=1

Hi,
I tried thru many sources to get Yamaha to put together a windows 7 driver for mlan. I was meet with either arragance, or silence cause I’m just a dumb customer that doesn’t know what I want. Typical for a Japanese company. So now I just verbally destroy Yamaha every chance I get with other audio recording users. I get around quite a bit.

Although I’ve had my ES6 for years now, I’m just getting around to hooking up the mLan16e to a new Windows 7 64bit computer.  Since I’m a computer tech, I’m wondering why no one mentions installing the older Yamaha products using the compatibility mode in Windows 7?  I have several programs like Cakewalk’s Virtual Piano working fine as I installed it as a Windows 2000 device on my Win 7 PC.

For those who intend to purchase a used 01X OR want to be a member of a thriving 01X group on Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/yamaha01x/

32 and 64 bit XP, 32 bit Windows 7 and 32 bit OSX 10.4 to 10.7

—HHNET