The KF files are from Twiddly.Bits Drums and Percussion (1), included in both the XF 10th Anniversary Pack and the Premium Collection. The first file listed above, KF_DRUMS 1.X0P, has 23 Patterns, each of which having as many as 16 active tracks, and each Part assigned the same Drum Kit.

Saving a Pattern as SMF obviously isn’t a difficult task. Since the same Drum Kit is used for each Part, once the SMF is imported to a Pattern location, it’s not hard to do a Mixing edit and select that kit for each active Part. That might not be the most elegant approach, but it will work.

Just as an example of the above, I’ve attached a SMF (.MID) file (zipped) of the first of the Patterns in KF_DRUMS 1, ROCK BEATS 1. The original Pattern uses Power Standard Kit 2 (PRE DR 002) for all Parts.

How “practical” this is seems to have more to do with available time then anything else. There are 22 additional Patterns in the KF_DRUMS 1.X0P file, seven in KF_DRUMS 2.X0P, and 25 in KF_PERC.X0P.

ROCK BEATS 1.zip  (File Size: 2KB - Downloads: 255)

An option, if you don’t have time or the inclination to convert the data, is to wait for the converted Library. One just has to determine if one wants the data converted already, or would rather do it yourself.

And to convert the PATTERN data, make a Pattern Chain that plays each Section once, then convert it to a Song, save the Song as a SMF… Instead of of all the sections individually. Split Song to Pattern after loading to the MOX.
You can choose to make it very difficult or simply wait until they are available… But no need to make it more difficult than it need be.

Bad_Mister - 10 November 2013 12:18 PM

.
You can choose to make it very difficult or simply wait until they are available… But no need to make it more difficult than it need be.

+ 1000 ;-)

5pinDIN - 10 November 2013 11:21 AM

Just as an example of the above, I’ve attached a SMF (.MID) file (zipped) of the first of the Patterns in KF_DRUMS 1, ROCK BEATS 1. The original Pattern uses Power Standard Kit 2 (PRE DR 002) for all Parts.

Since I had a few spare minutes, I inserted the PC events for the Power Standard Kit 2 into the SMF. The attached should reflect that, and it should work with a MOXF. Would someone please download it and report back?

Don’t forget to press [SOLO] before selecting tracks, or the result will be cacophony. :-)

ROCK BEATS 1 PC.zip  (File Size: 2KB - Downloads: 249)

Just wading into this conversation, and after having read through everything, I have a couple of questions.

But let me first express my own biases and performance-related preferences so that you know where I’m coming from when I ask what I ask.

1.) I do everything based on Patterns, as opposed to Songs. I find that the only time I use “Songs” (as in the MODE name, not as in actual songs) is when I’m going to record and I want to mix everything down or commit to a final sequence. But for everything that I do live, I like to use patterns, because it makes it easier for me to customize my arrangements on the spot, repeat the chorus 3x instead of two, go to the bridge and THEN the verse before the chorus, et cetera. In practice what this means is that instead of me playing keys in a band with 3 or 4 other rhythm instruments, I’m leading the band with the MOTIF by playing multitimbral patterns and then augmenting that with one or two live instruments (usually drums and either a guitar or a bass). But it’s the MOTIF that’s “driving” everything, starts and stops, tempo modifications, etc. Which is why Patterns are so useful for me, because as a vocalist, I can preplay all of my licks and riffs and then just press the buttons in real time.

2.) I have become something of a local resource/enthusiast for keyboardists in my area who are beginning to experiment with using tracks as their primary form of musical accompaniment, augmenting the keyboard sounds with live instruments, rather than the other way around. Because of this, I want to share / swap files with my friends who do similar kinds of arrangements, but who do them with different boards. Several have MOTIF-ES models, one has a MO6, another has an MOX, two more have MOTIF XFs, etc. I just got my hands on a MOXF, but I noticed that it won’t directly read the pattern files from the MOTIF XF series (MOTIF XF is .x3p but the MOXF is .x6p). To the best of my knowledge it seems like the only way to recreate these arrangements in Pattern format is to Pattern-Chain them into Songs, then save those Songs as SMF files, then load those SMF files into the new keyboards (XS, ES, XF, MOXF, or MOX), audition/select the appropriate matching sounds, and then split those Songs into Pattern sections that match the feel of the arrangement.

For one song, this is no big deal. But for many songs, this feels like a hassle. Even if I knew I had to change the sounds because of updated, changed voices, I would still love it if there was some kind of alternate SMF that was for patterns that would save the sequences and keep them mapped or broken out into the same pattern sections.

So if you’re still reading and haven’t fallen prey to TL:DR-itis, here are my questions:

A.) Are there any plans for any kind of reverse-compatible pattern file that could work in various MOTIF and MOX models?

B.) Am I correct in intuiting that the latest round of MOTIF and MOXF boards were designed with a view of patterns as less of a performance element, and more of a step in the writing/arranging process to create songs? And if so, does that explain why the lettered buttons on the MOXF are for the voice banks instead of pattern sections? Or was that more of an engineering type decision related to keeping the instrument lighter/smaller?

C.) Is what I’m looking for more in the wheelhouse of a software solution like Ableton? Is this integrated at all into Cubase? (I’ve never used it, but I’ve heard a lot about Ableton in the last few years. The last time I used Cubase was like 10 years ago, when I used the trial version, aka Cubasis.)

D.) Finally,I’ve noticed a lot of documentation about file libraries and voices, but very little about patterns specifically. I noticed that my friend’s MOX could read my ES pattern files, and the XF could read my ES pattern files, but the MOXF can’t read any of the pattern files from the ES, the XS, or the XF. I’m guessing that probably means that an MOX wouldn’t be able to read a pattern from a MOTIF XS, either. Is there any kind of chart that shows which files are compatible with which? I’ve been combing through various manuals and couldn’t find it, but maybe it’s just because it’s late and I’m tired.

A.) Are there any plans for any kind of reverse-compatible pattern file that could work in various MOTIF and MOX models?

We can’t ever discuss plans, but this is not necessary. You can export each Pattern Section as a SMF - not sure why you feel you have to chain them first. That (extra) step is not necessary. Each Section can be exported as a separate SMF, and loaded to the other device’s Pattern mode.

B.) Am I correct in intuiting that the latest round of MOTIF and MOXF boards were designed with a view of patterns as less of a performance element, and more of a step in the writing/arranging process to create songs? And if so, does that explain why the lettered buttons on the MOXF are for the voice banks instead of pattern sections? Or was that more of an engineering type decision related to keeping the instrument lighter/smaller?

You are incorrect. A design isn’t “more “ of one thing or another, the Chain function has been designed to document real time rearranging on the fly… So on the contrary, the design includes exactly how you are using it. It anticipates creating arrangements where you let the chorus play 3 times instead if 2, it can even faithfully record stutter-step Section recalls and real time time signature changes… So I’d say it was designed to work anyway you’d like to work. Certainly it can do exactly what you are doing, specifically because it was designed to work just as you are working!

And the fact that you can document what your doing proves it!

C.) Is what I’m looking for more in the wheelhouse of a software solution like Ableton? Is this integrated at all into Cubase? (I’ve never used it, but I’ve heard a lot about Ableton in the last few years. The last time I used Cubase was like 10 years ago, when I used the trial version, aka Cubasis.)

Seems what you are looking for you already own, just use it.

D.) Finally,I’ve noticed a lot of documentation about file libraries and voices, but very little about patterns specifically. I noticed that my friend’s MOX could read my ES pattern files, and the XF could read my ES pattern files, but the MOXF can’t read any of the pattern files from the ES, the XS, or the XF. I’m guessing that probably means that an MOX wouldn’t be able to read a pattern from a MOTIF XS, either. Is there any kind of chart that shows which files are compatible with which? I’ve been combing through various manuals and couldn’t find it, but maybe it’s just because it’s late and I’m tired.

The MOX cannot read ES Pattern files. I don’t recall it being able to load anything but MOX data.

This is not necessary. You can export each Pattern Section as a SMF - not sure why you feel you have to chain them first. That (extra) step is not necessary. Each Section can be exported as a separate SMF, and loaded to the other device’s Pattern mode.

The idea, as I’m thinking out loud here, would be to have standard MIDI files that can be grouped together, much like an AllSongs file.

(By the way, I’ve since transitioned from asking about what’s possible to sort of theorizing out loud about what I wish this board would do that would be more in line with how I want to work. you could call it a complaint if you want, but I choose to see it as more of the beginnings of a wish-list. If that’s too off-topic, I apologize.)

My long-term goal (Sisyphean as it might be) is for each song in my repertoire to have patterns that can be read in the ES, MOX, XS, MF, and MOXF keyboards. (I have a lot of friends who want to share arrangements and they all have different models.)

For that reason, it would be really convenient to have one pattern filetype that could be saved, for example, in an XF and then read by an MOXF (this would be extra convenient because they’re supposed to have all the same voices, right?).

I hear you about exporting each pattern section as its own SMF, but then instead of taking the time to chain the patterns beforehand, I’d have to take the time to copy event data from each SMF and paste it, in the correct order, into the one song. Seems like either way I’m having to deconstruct and reconstruct the patterns. Even if I could load/import an SMF directly into a pattern SECTION, I’d still have to have each pattern section saved as a separate SMF.

What would be ideal would be a way to save each AllPattern or AllSong file as model specific, in the way that you can save a Microsoft Word file as either a .doc file or a .docx file. Details may get shifted around a bit, but you still get the same general effect.

You are incorrect. A design isn’t “more “ of one thing or another, the Chain function has been designed to document real time rearranging on the fly… So on the contrary, the design includes exactly how you are using it. It anticipates creating arrangements where you let the chorus play 3 times instead if 2, it can even faithfully record stutter-step Section recalls and real time time signature changes… So I’d say it was designed to work anyway you’d like to work.

I understand that no workstation can be all things for all people. My question was specifically about the layout of the buttons on the MOXF instrument panel… being someone who prefers to manipulate patterns on the fly, it was initially confusing for me that the buttons labeled A-H did not correspond to the pattern sections, but instead were for instrument banks.

I think this was because I was used to the layout of the MOTIF ES, in which the pattern sections aren’t mapped to the same set of 16 buttons that are also used for track selection and instrument muting/soloing.

It was this difference, combined with the file compatibility issue with patterns, that made me wonder if there was a design preference for songs over patterns. Forgive me if that sounded combative, it wasn’t intended that way.

The MOX cannot read ES Pattern files. I don’t recall it being able to load anything but MOX data.

Right, and that was the part that confused me the most. My ES patterns can be read by MOTIF XS and MOTIF XF keyboards, but not on MOX or MOXF keyboards. That, to me, is the missing link that would make my life much easier.