Old Motifator threads are available in the Archive.
cajo
Total Posts: 37
Joined 11-07-2013 status: Regular |
Can someone confirm please that the guitar voice “Classical AF1&2;”, sounds on your MOXF like it does in the file attached. Is there any way to reduce/remove the thumping sound in the background. I understand how acoustical instruments work and sound but to me this is a bit over the top (sounds almost like drums). Perhaps this is a “feature” that I don’t know how to control. The MP3 file contains a direct recording from MOXF8 to DAW. File Attachments
classical_af1&2.mp3 (File Size: 691KB - Downloads: 356) |
popsel2
Total Posts: 76
Joined 11-23-2013 status: Experienced |
Hi,
PS.
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cajo
Total Posts: 37
Joined 11-07-2013 status: Regular |
I have just discovered this issue with other acoustic instrument voices. I higher octaves (still within the range of the instrument) I can hear the thumping noise when I hit a key. Interestingly the noise is deeper the higher is the note I play. There is something very wrong here. It is also heard on all recordings. The file attached demonstrates it well but you should play it on speakers other than laptop speakers in order to hear it. |
cajo
Total Posts: 37
Joined 11-07-2013 status: Regular |
I thought the example I attached plays within the natural range of the guitar. I could be wrong here but it really sounds strange and ugly. I certainly do not hear that when I play my guitar. Perhaps the unit is already due for a fix under warranty or I need good lesson or two about something..... |
5pinDIN
Total Posts: 11891
Joined 09-16-2010 status: Legend |
I have an XF, but that Voice should be at PRE2:050(D02) on it and the MOXF. Is that what you’re playing, or is it a copy of it in a User Bank? Was the recording made while just playing high notes, or were you also pressing [AF2]? You could try turning down the Reverb Send. With the Preset Voice it’s set to 23 - a setting of about half of that, assuming I’m hearing what you are, might be more to your liking. |
popsel2
Total Posts: 76
Joined 11-23-2013 status: Experienced |
Hi,
after isolating single elements of this guitar sound I see the noise is recorded with the sample itself.
Even if Yamaha spend 741MB of sample memory for the MOXF they have to take care about ressources. So some sounds sound more realistic and have more pressure than others.
Thanks to the FLASH expansion you are welcome to add your own sounds to the MOXF. I did it with vintage 80’s drum sounds I could not find in the MOXF. If you have some weeks to find out this is feasible. |
popsel2
Total Posts: 76
Joined 11-23-2013 status: Experienced |
Hi,
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5pinDIN
Total Posts: 11891
Joined 09-16-2010 status: Legend |
What I’m hearing that sounds unnatural in the MP3 that cajo posted occurs mostly in the reverb tail. If that’s not what you’re referring to in the recording, please explain what you hear a bit more. Also, since you’ve isolated which Elements of the Voice cause what it is that you find objectionable, please post that information. It might be possible to edit certain parameters to minimize the issue, even if the characteristic is part of the sample. It also would be helpful if cajo would tell us whether the recording was made with [AF2] pressed or not. |
cajo
Total Posts: 37
Joined 11-07-2013 status: Regular |
Thank you all.
So in summary:
I need to ask more questions. Why is this noise part of the guitar sample? I am under impression that it sounds like the natural thump of the piano key, that can be heard in piano voices. Why is it part of the recordings even when piano voices are played. To me, while the piano player is supposed to hear this, the listeners a few meters away do not hear it therefore it should not be recorded. Have I gone too far in the wrong direction here? Please let me know and correct me. |
cajo
Total Posts: 37
Joined 11-07-2013 status: Regular |
AF2 is for harmonics (at list in my MOXF) and it was not pressed during the recording. |
Bad_Mister
Total Posts: 36620
Joined 07-30-2002 status: Moderator |
We highly recommend that you get a basic musical instrument book that gives you the basic ranges of musical instruments. Or better if you have a friend that plays classical guitar some day listen to it in the same room. Unfortunately, more than 50% of the acoustic guitars you hear are recorded (microphone is either near or in the guitar). So what is “natural” or normally heard can be debated, just it would not be constructive here. The natural range of any instrument is important information to know if you plan on playing a synthesizer well. Perhaps piano is your instrument: the acoustic piano has a range from A-1 through C7, playing notes below G#-1 or note above C#7 would be the result of just sample transposition - a piano does not reproduce notes above or below its limits. Neither does a guitar. Anything that happens outside that range is really secondary… Read up on Xpanded Articulations… On certain instruments including the guitars, basses and some others, you will find typical string instrument “sound effects” that is noises, non musical tones that the instrument makes during playing. These can be manually added or used by the arpeggios. However, on instruments that have a range less than 61, 76 or 88 keys (which by the way is MOST of them) sample playback instruments have to fill in the empty keys with sound… Leaving them empty would cause those who don’t know to panic. A flutes lowest note is middle “c” I can remember back in the early days of sample playback synthesizers, one manufacturer put out a Library that was, what they thought, a fine representation of musical instruments.... The phone would not stop ringing, keyboard players would call and announce they had purchased this (expensive) library of sounds but wanted to return it because: “There are no notes below G on the violin...” To which, as a sales person I would respond, that’s correct, there are no note below G on a violin. But keyboard players didn’t seem to understand, this. There are no notes below G on a violin, and if you are sampling a real acoustic instrument, indeed, there are no notes below G on a violin to record. It was so bad, in terms of the target customers (keyboard players) not knowing the range of instruments… Manufacturers started handing out charts with musical instrument ranges on it. But “smart” never wins here… And it was decided that those smart enough to know the instrument ranges were not a big enough audience to support the industry, and educating keyboard players was like too slow a process. Result: what you see most companies do now… They fill the rest of the range with whatever… Just don’t leave it blank. Violins have a composite single string that includes a viola, cello, and bass below the lowest G so that one can play violin on the keyboard without having to know the actual range.
Yes, there is. Change the Element Level of the KEY OFF ELEMENT, (Element 5). You say you understand acoustic instruments - yet every note you played in your mp3 example is not one that is reproduced by a CLASSICAL GUITAR. the Key Off Noise and how it sounds or behaves on the notes you selected to play is silliness, don’t even waste time reprogramming that (IMHO) it is a waste of time. It is never going to played in earnest. Outside of usable range… Surely you can hear that? You can not only control the Element Level as a fixed value, you can SCALE the level… This means you can change the output level of any Element across the keyboard - so if you want to have less “thump” as you go up the keyboard you “scale” the output so it contributes less as you go up the keys. And because I know you are saying you know how “acoustical instruments work” you do know that guitars can be stroked and hit and sound like drums? http://youtu.be/dvk2e9F9-Qs
How much of this is extremely programmable. Use the SOLO function to isolate each Elements contribution.
Press [EDIT]
Select ELEMENT 5, press SOLO
Then name and STORE you customized Classical guitar. That’s why you paid extra ... For programmability.
I hope at the end of this you post an mp3 of your final edit, with your knowledge of how acoustic instruments sound, please give an actual music performance - using the actual musical range of the instrument involved.
For thumping sounds on guitars please google: Rodrigo y Gabriela
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MeMyselfAndI64
Total Posts: 201
Joined 11-12-2013 status: Enthusiast |
or listen to this...especially at min 1.42
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cajo
Total Posts: 37
Joined 11-07-2013 status: Regular |
Bad Mister,
Thank you all for help. |
Bif
Total Posts: 774
Joined 08-18-2003 status: Guru |
Many years ago I purchased a Kurzweil PC88MX, primarily for its acoustic pianos. After having it home for a few weeks and playing individual notes, listening to them decay (essentially scrutinizing the sound) I thought there was something wrong with it due to what sounded like a noise gate cutting off the tail of the decayed note. I took it back to the store where I purchased it, set it up and started trying to get the salesperson to hear what I was hearing. A customer walks in that the salesman knew and the salesman says “Play something on that keyboard.” The customer proceeds to play the keys off of it. When he finished, he said, “What’s the problem, it sounds like a piano to me.” I learned that if you take most synths and start to scrutinize certain sounds in certain key ranges, you’ll often discover things that sound unnatural. But, when you just play it in a natural manner in the natural key range, it sounds wonderful. Glad your board isn’t broke. Enjoy it! Greg |