I have assigned 8 different patches on the first 8 channels of a Song, ie one patch per channel (midi ch 1-8).

This works fine in Song mode, and each part selected changes to the set patch.

However if I then use Master Mode and assign that Song setup all the Master allows is the patch on channel 1 to play, and even though the display shows a different patch when selecting (for example I would press the part 3 button - with the Track button lit - which is set to an EP, however the patch does not change, it stays on piano 1 part/track 1?

Any one have any ideas here please? As I read the instructions, Master merely links to a Mode and allows that mode to operate normally (or as it would in its stand-alone version)...am I missing something here?

Thanks

Edit: Seems like even though Master is “supposed” to only reference a Mode and by that definition it should then allow that mode to operate normally, it does not. It only allows 4 midi channels to be used, so if you have setup 16 different patches in Song mode, forget about using it in Master mode as all it will allow is 4 channels!

I just tried an experiment and assigned the 4 Master zones to channels 1-4. And yep, THEN the different patches assigned to those parts played!

And if you need one (channel) to go to an external device (harmony pedal for example - (which cannot Rx in OMNI) then you drop to three channels. So Master is not as “all-powerful” as we would be led to believe.

Seems like to get what I need to happen I will need to set up 4 different Masters to get the same functionality of one Song.

If you want the Master program to allow you to transmit from the keyboard on four MIDI channels simultaneously, you must activate the ZONE SWITCH.

the MOXF keyboard normally transmits on one MIDI channel at a time. The only time the keyboard can transmit on more than one MIDI channel is when you are in Master mode and the ZONE SWITCH is set to ON. The MOXF is a 4-Zone Master controller.

From the main [MASTER] mode screen
Press [F3] SWITCH
Set the Zone Switch = On
Set the ZoneKnob = as you require

When the Zone Switch is set to ON, the Master program’s MIDI transmit functions are activated. If the Switch is not ON, you are transmitting on the single channel set by the mode you are in. The rule of the mode apply.

The sequencer address sixteen channels… The keyboard is not going to allow you to fulfill you need to be “all powerful” for that we suggest you seek help elsewhere
:-)

Seems like you were reading the manual or tutorial for the Motif XF ... If you require 8 MIDI channels, and if that fulfills the need to be “all powerful” then upgrade to the Motif XF… It has an 8 Zone Master control setup.
Please see the documentation for the MOXF Master mode.

pax_eterna - 07 December 2013 10:12 AM

Edit:.....

And if you need one (channel) to go to an external device (harmony pedal for example - (which cannot Rx in OMNI) then you drop to three channels. So Master is not as “all-powerful” as we would be led to believe.

Seems like to get what I need to happen I will need to set up 4 different Masters to get the same functionality of one Song.

I don`t know If I miss understand this comment!!

I have 4 internal sounds on Button 1-4 and 4 external sounds on button 9-12.

Besides that I have masters (Song based)that is 16 channels without using the Zone switch. some channels sends to external device some for internal voices some layers between external internal.

EDIT: I re read you whole comment....
You should not have the track button lit.
You shall have pattern section button lit/enabled

now you can have buttons/channels 1-4 lit(enabled) at the same time and use button 9-12 for external sounds also simultaneously!

Yes, internal Zones can be activated and deactivated separately using the MASTER [PERFORMANCE CONTROL] function.

But Master (keyboard) controller transmitting is different from sending on 16 MIDI channels from a SONG or PATTERN.
The keyboard can transmit on a maximum of four MIDI Channels simultaneously. The sequencer, of course can transmit on 16 MIDI channels. The difference is significant.

The thing is with a little thought and planning you can send commands to external devices using the MASTER program and/or the built-in Sequencer. This is why when I get a post from someone that says “I’ll never use the sequencer” I take it with a grain of salt… They just haven’t thought of a way to make it useful. The sequence can hold all kinds of data that can be used to program external devices with system exclusive messages, Control Change commands, etc., etc., etc. Even if you don’t use the sequencer for the traditional note playback it is still a very valuable tool.

To conclude you CAN’T do something can be done very prematurely (as is possibly evidenced in this thread).
:-)

hmmm..MeMyself sorry but you have not understood really.

No one cannot transmit on the 16 channels from Song mode, if it is referenced via a Master. A master drops the available Tx channels to 4.

Reading the documentation re Masters gives the “impression” that a mode can operate the same way when referenced by a Master. This is not the case in Song Mode. Works fine in Performance as there are only 4 parts there anyway.

I have a live setup in Song Mode that uses 12 different instruments. Pianos, EPs, Guitars, Organs...so that I can instantly jump to any patch by just pressing a part button, however the external device I also need to send note data to can ONLY Rx this on one channel only (IE it has no OMNI mode)...Ergo the moment I change a patch in song mode the TX channel changes also so no more data goes out.

Enter Master Mode - where one play the keyboard on one zone, but at the same time Tx externally on the required channel no matter what channel/part you are playing on the keyboard. However, it seems that even though one has access to (in my case) 12 different parts in Song Mode, when used within a Master, this then drops to 4. (well 3 really as one zone is needed to tx to the external device on a fixed channel).

It was more an observation that Master is not quite as overarching as indicated.

I will simply need to program up about 7 separate performances to do what I need and forget about Masters. A bit more convoluted on stage, but it is what it is.

Bad_Mister - 07 December 2013 11:17 AM

Yes, internal Zones can be activated and deactivated separately using the MASTER [PERFORMANCE CONTROL] function.

But Master (keyboard) controller transmitting is different from sending on 16 MIDI channels from a SONG or PATTERN.
The keyboard can transmit on a maximum of four MIDI Channels simultaneously. The sequencer, of course can transmit on 16 MIDI channels. The difference is significant.

The thing is with a little thought and planning you can send commands to external devices using the MASTER program and/or the built-in Sequencer. This is why when I get a post from someone that says “I’ll never use the sequencer” I take it with a grain of salt… They just haven’t thought of a way to make it useful. The sequence can hold all kinds of data that can be used to program external devices with system exclusive messages, Control Change commands, etc., etc., etc. Even if you don’t use the sequencer for the traditional note playback it is still a very valuable tool.

To conclude you CAN’T do something can be done very prematurely (as is possibly evidenced in this thread).
:-)

I have experimented a bit with song mode and sending program messages etc as an learning experience.

It,s good to know all options! much easier to plan ahead and take the right path from the beginning.:)

pax_eterna - 07 December 2013 09:47 AM

I have assigned 8 different patches on the first 8 channels of a Song, ie one patch per channel (midi ch 1-8).

This works fine in Song mode, and each part selected changes to the set patch.

However if I then use Master Mode and assign that Song setup all the Master allows is the patch on channel 1 to play, and even though the display shows a different patch when selecting (for example I would press the part 3 button - with the Track button lit - which is set to an EP, however the patch does not change, it stays on piano 1 part/track 1?

Any one have any ideas here please? As I read the instructions, Master merely links to a Mode and allows that mode to operate normally (or as it would in its stand-alone version)...am I missing something here?

Thanks

OK is misunderstood that part but you say here you have the track button lit.....
That is wrong , The pattern section button shall be lit!!
Then the voice will change OK?

pax_eterna - 07 December 2013 11:35 AM

hmmm..MeMyself sorry but you have not understood really.

No one cannot transmit on the 16 channels from Song mode, if it is referenced via a Master. A master drops the available Tx channels to 4.

Reading the documentation re Masters gives the “impression” that a mode can operate the same way when referenced by a Master. This is not the case in Song Mode. Works fine in Performance as there are only 4 parts there anyway.

I have a live setup in Song Mode that uses 12 different instruments. Pianos, EPs, Guitars, Organs...so that I can instantly jump to any patch by just pressing a part button, however the external device I also need to send note data to can ONLY Rx this on one channel only (IE it has no OMNI mode)...Ergo the moment I change a patch in song mode the TX channel changes also so no more data goes out.

Enter Master Mode - where one play the keyboard on one zone, but at the same time Tx externally on the required channel no matter what channel/part you are playing on the keyboard. However, it seems that even though one has access to (in my case) 12 different parts in Song Mode, when used within a Master, this then drops to 4. (well 3 really as one zone is needed to tx to the external device on a fixed channel).

It was more an observation that Master is not quite as overarching as indicated.

I will simply need to program up about 7 separate performances to do what I need and forget about Masters. A bit more convoluted on stage, but it is what it is.

May I explain what I have done,when I say I have songs with 16 channels in master mode! It,s really not an master...but quite powerful!

I have in song mode set up 16 channels that either sending to external or to internal and some that sends to both for layers between em.

Then in song mode, set program changes etc.

I make an master out of it....no reason for this other than easier to change between masters than from master to song:)

I have not set anything special up in the master.
Other than setting the memory to song.

Now I load the master, then hit the play button (to send the program change etc)
Now in track mode, I have 16 buttons configured to be either external or internal or both!

Yes I get what you are saying, but you have them set up in a sequence ;-) using external synths et al.

It is quite a deal different to how I am needing to set up. I am glad it is working for you though :-)

I can use Performance mode to get a work-around, but it is not ideal.