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Dreams
Total Posts: 11
Joined 08-12-2013 status: Regular |
Hi all, I have some issues in regards to the performances ... a little background information first: I am a guitarist and have been working with a Proteus EMU 1XR with Cubase. I bought the MX49 three weeks ago, and getting a little better understanding of the structure of the MX49. The Proteus was/is rather simpel in relation to the MX49. I found out that a Voice can sound differently or have different properties depending on in which Performance the voice is “placed”. So when I, in Cubase have e midi track and choose a Voice (eg: Dream’nOfU) for that specific track and the MX49 is in performance# 51 the Voice (Dream’nOfU) sounds just as i want it. When the song has finished, in Cubase, and i want to “noodle” around on the MX49 (eg change performance) and start the song again - now Dream’nOfU has no arpeggio enabled and/or other properties has changed (effects etc.) Is there a way to tell the MX49 via Cubase that i want to use a specific voice in a specific Performance, so i don’t have to change performance on the MX49? I hope the above is understandable :-) - otherwise please let me know and I will try to explain. Best Regards |
Bad_Mister
Total Posts: 36620
Joined 07-30-2002 status: Moderator |
Although I’m not exactly sure what it is you are trying to do, you can recall any sound (VOICE) in any PART of a MX Performance by sending the appropriate Bank Select and Program change for the Voice you want to select. Bank Select and Program Changes can be input on a track of your DAW (Cubase) and select the Voice for a MIDI channel. It is unclear how you have your PERFORMANCE setup. Since the messages you are going to have to send are CHANNEL messages, all PARTS assigned to the MIDI channel in question will change to Bank and Program you send. |
Dreams
Total Posts: 11
Joined 08-12-2013 status: Regular |
I understand that I can send PC, MSB/LSB - that’s how i have always done with the Proteus (actually I have never send MSB/LSB from Cubase to the Proteus - only PC).
As far as I understand a Voice can sound differently depending on which PART of a PERFORMANCE a VOICE is on. Example:
If that is the case then I wan’t to recall the VOICE that is in a PART of a given PERFORMANCE. What I do now is that i go to the MX and make sure that the appropriate PERFORMANCE is “active”, by changing to the PERFORMANCE I need, then in Cubase i setup a midi track assigning a midi channel that corresponds to the specific PART in the PERFORMANCE (midi track->midi channel 2, which will recall PERFORMANCE->PART 2 in the Performance)
For me it is like each PERFORMANCE is a sound module.
I have not changed/altered anything in regards to the PERFORMANCE. After playing around with the performances I restored to factory settings |
Bad_Mister
Total Posts: 36620
Joined 07-30-2002 status: Moderator |
Well, it depends. I know that is not the answer you were looking for, but a Voice in a Performance can sound exactly as you would like… But it would mean you need to make settings beyond just recalling the Voice by Program Change. First, you will need to learn to use both the Bank Select (MSB/LSB) and the Program Change, because, the MX is not just limited to 128 sounds… There are hundreds… So to recall the Voice properly Bank Select is additionally necessary. Becuase the PART parameters can be different for each PART, if you only insert a new VOICE, that Voice will inherit the current PART settings of the Voice it is replacing. This can be understood if you think about the 16 PARTs as channels on a mixer. If you originally have a guitar in channel 12 of the mixer and all you do is unplug it and plug in a bass, the bass would now inherit the mixer settings of for channel 12. Simply changing the instrument ((Program Change) does not reset the mixer channel’s Volume, the mixer channel’s pan position, the mixer channel’s Send amount to the Reverb and Chorus, etc. the bass would inherit whatever other settings that channel had. This can be a disaster… But if you understand how this works in the real world, you are better prepared to deal with the changes necessary. If you were used to only sending the PC, then we assume you were using some method to RESET the ‘mixer settings’ or the gear you were used to working with did not have the parameters available here. |
Dreams
Total Posts: 11
Joined 08-12-2013 status: Regular |
Thanks for spelling it out for me - it is very helpful. The mixer analogy is a very good way to picture the PARTS and their properties.
On the Proteus, I modified the SOUNDS/VOICES or used them as they were, so I never had to reset any settings. In the Proteus there is a PROGRAM->PRESET feature, so I never had to make any BANK selects. So I have never used much time in editing voices in keyboards/synthesizers, but as a guitarist I have lot of gear that i have used a lot of time setting up, but I want make music and not use too much time on technical side ... effortless is the keyword (lazy or laid back). I know as the gear gets more features it gets more complicated and we have to use time, in order to get a better understanding of how create the expressions we want to display to the listener. Now I’ve edited PART settings (Play mode, Filter, Arp, Voice insert effects etc). There’s off course a lot of parameters I need to get more knowledge about. I must say the effects are quite good. I have also used Bank select (MSB/LSB) to get to recall a specific VOICE. I noticed that in Cubase i have to enter the PC# 1 lower than stated in the Data List - I guess that Cubase counts from 1 to 128, but not a big problem (as long as I remember) I can see in the Data List that there is a list of Performances and their ID/Number and found out that I can make Cubase change to any given PERFORMANCE on the MX by callingMSB 63, LSB 80 and PC 0...127. So far so good. My thoughts on the above: If there is a VOICE in any given PERFORMANCE->PART I’d like to use in a song, then why start remaking it and storing it in a USER Bank, why not just call it from Cubase and play it ... I mean it is already there? So I still need to find out how I can recall any VOICE from any PART in any PERFORMANCE - and do it for different midi-tracks from Cubase. Unless it is too intricate to do in relation to making your own VOICE? |
Bad_Mister
Total Posts: 36620
Joined 07-30-2002 status: Moderator |
This statement kind of shows you are not really clear on the Voice in a Part thing. It is a bit different.
You would only create a User Voice in the User Voice Bank if you wanted to customize it beyond the PART parameters. Say you wanted to change the Voices assigned INSERT EFFECT, that would be a reason to STORE a new version as a User Voice. Otherwise, of course, you use a Bank Select and Program Change for each PART you want to use. The thing is you can recall the first Performance and always use it as you basic Multi timbral setup. Simply reprogram it with data you place in your DAW to recall the sounds you want for each PART. You need to understand the difference between parameters that are Voice parameters, and those that are PART parameters applied to create a mix with the other PARTs.
Think of the PARTS In a Performance as the channels of a mxing console… Where each is an input channel. And each PART has a send amount to the mixer’s System Effects (Reverb and Chorus), etc.
So the instrument Voice may be an Electric Piano with an Auto Pan as the Insert Effect. Once it is recalled to a PART of a PERFORMANCE, you can then apply Reverb and a Chorus (time delay) effect Send amount. You can adjust the Volume of the E.Piano as it compares with the other 15 Parts in the mix. So Part parameters are about mixing the entire ensemble. The Boice parameters apply to the instrument sound itself. Hope that helps. |
Dreams
Total Posts: 11
Joined 08-12-2013 status: Regular |
Hi again, yes it helps a lot and your help is greately appreciated. I hope that i’m not tiring you with all of my novice questions!?
Thanks, exactly what i needed to be spelled out - this I can relate to ... me happy :-)
The above is exactly my problem. I can recall any and all Voices in any of the 16 parts in a Performance - no problem doing this. What I want is to recall any Voice in any of the 16 Parts from any different Performance - simultanously?
Example - A Cubase project:
Cubase->Miditrack 2 calling PART 2->Performance 51 Cubase->Miditrack 3 calling PART 12->Performance 78 Etc… Or am I missing something? |
Bad_Mister
Total Posts: 36620
Joined 07-30-2002 status: Moderator |
You are missing something… A PERFORMANCE is made up of PARTS. Not the other way around. PART is used as in the sentence “A String Quartet is made up of four parts: violin 1, violin 2, viola, cello”. Each PART is one musician or in the case of the MX, one Voice. A sixteen PART PERFORMANCE has one Voice in each. Each PART is on a successively higher MIDI channel, 1-16, when you are working with an external DAW. (That is LAYER button OFF, SPLIT button OFF) The ‘playable’ PERFORMANCES you have in 001-128 are made up of PARTs 1 and 2 either layered or split on the keyboard and perhaps a Drum groove assigned as the RHYTHM PATTERN using PART 10. The other PARTs 3-9, and 11-16 are available to house individual Voices. They are not doing anything when you have the LAYER button or the SPLIT button lit… you only play them when you press [PART SELECT] then press a button [1]-[16]. |
Dreams
Total Posts: 11
Joined 08-12-2013 status: Regular |
Thanks, yes i am aware that each Performance is made up of 16 parts and each part can have a voice assigned. Maybe it was my example that was wrong - now corrected:
Example - A Cubase project:
Cubase->Miditrack 2 calling Performance 51->PART 2->Voice#Y Cubase->Miditrack 3 calling Performance 78->PART 12->Voice#Z Etc…
... is this possible and could you show me an example? |
KostasT
Total Posts: 90
Joined 04-06-2013 status: Experienced |
I think it’s impossible (and unreasonable) to access multiple performances simultaneously in a single cubase project. What is possible is to access any voice (even not stored in the performance permanently), assigned to a different PART of a certain active PERFORMANCE, therefore 16 voices in total with max 4 insertion effects and 2 ARPs at any given time. Maybe, it is possible to change performances (and therefore voices) during cubase playback, but I am not sure how you can do it. |
mr5x5
Total Posts: 37
Joined 05-04-2013 status: Regular |
Yeah I think he wants to cherry pick voices from different performances at the same time including the performance settings of each voice. Probably can’t do that directly but can he copy and paste a voice in a performance, including it’s performance settings, into a part of a new performance? Would the copy/paste process bring those voice’s performance settings from the performance sources over into the new performance? The idea would be to first create a new performance containing the voices he wants to use as copied out of other performances. He could then work in Cubase from that new performance. |
Dreams
Total Posts: 11
Joined 08-12-2013 status: Regular |
Exactly (cherry pick ;-)), so I get the Performance/Part settings of each voice. But, I just got of the phone with the dealer who sold me the MX and he told me that it is not possible to pick Voices from different Performances at the same time.
I guess I’ll have to test this and see if I can inherit the Performance/Part settings when copying from one Performance to another - as mr5x5 suggested. Thanks for the response. |
Bad_Mister
Total Posts: 36620
Joined 07-30-2002 status: Moderator |
It is not so much that it is not possible, it is totally unnecessary. You are completely looking at this incorrectly. The Voice you see in a PART could be that Voice in any PART. The PART settings can only be made and only make sense (which is more important) when you view them as how it relates to your MUSIC. You cannot view them or listen to them out of the context of YOUR MUSIC> Say the VOICE in PART 14 of a PERFORMANCE is just as you like it but the volume is 101 and the Reverb is 30… and Chorus is 15… but when you put it with the rest of the instruments in your composition the volume of 101 is way too loud. You need to turn it down. That is what a PART parameter is for - to adjust the Voice - which you can select in any PART at any time - to adjust that Voice to its current surroundings. It is difficult to really see how you are thinking about this, but any VOICE can be placed in any PART 1-16. Because it already exists in a factory PERFORMANCE is wonderful but of no consequence - you are putting utmost consequence on that fact, when in fact, it has none. If you like the VOICE in whatever PERFORMANCE - simply recall it in the one you are working with. If you have ever worked with a band and a mixer, this is the same situation. Any musician can be plugged into any channel of the mixer - you are going to get the appropriate settings for each channel based on what you have plugged into it..... |
KostasT
Total Posts: 90
Joined 04-06-2013 status: Experienced |
I think that the problem he is facing concerns mainly the effects section.
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