I have just read through this entire subject between you two.  I understand ALMOST perfectly what VM is saying because I am having the same difficulty.  The only thing I don’t understand VM, is when you say “switch songs”.  For me it is switch tracks”.  When I go to track 2 after recording track 1, the Motif plays the instrument used in track 2, for track 1.  So now I have two tracks playing the same insrument.  If I were to continue in this vein, then all the tracks would be one instrument.

@Motif8mine.  I don’t understand what you don’t understand what VM is saying?  You are NOT listening to what he says and instead are more interested in hearing yourself talk about what you know.  Okay, we get it.  YOu know what you know.  But what you don’t know is not a matter of linguistic semantics, WHICH IS NOT THE POINT WHATSOEVER, which you keep harping on.  You focus on English and grammar instead of the question asked of you and in my opinion VM has been a perfect gentleman with you and incredibly patient, because it is not him who doesn’t understand what his point is, IT IS YOU.

Why not forget all this garbled information about the Manual says and the Manual does, which is true, but nonetheless, you are NOT LISTENING to this guy.  You are listening to what and how he says something instead of answering his questions.

He keeps telling you “Let’s get back to the post.” DON’T YOU GET THAT?!  In his polite manner, he is telling you that you are not focusing on the matter at hand but instead are focusing on your expertise on a paper manual.  There are glitches in every software and mistakes in every manual I have ever read, (I happen to be an expert on this topic). 

In short:  You have an extremely frustrated gentleman who needs help and is asking it of you in the best way that he can and knows of.

You instead focus on his linquistic use of terminology and don’t answer his question at all.

In my opinion you should look in the mirror and talk to yourself since you like hearing yourself talk so much and this gentleman needs to find himself a real “guru” who will LISTEN to his question and then answer it.

In my opinion, you are the weakest link in MOTIFATOR.  I don’t apologize for saying this.  I waited for you to answer him page after page and I became extremely frustrated with you because what he said was clear as day to me, and what you said was clear as well but HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH HIS QUESTIONS!!! Or at least very little.

Point of Order here: It can be as frustrating for the person trying to help as it is for the person with the issue. I certainly empathize with both parties. When dealing with any issue in a FORUM like this it is easy to go off in the wrong direction, particularly when the person trying to give the solution is not able to see the configuration nor can they understand what the questioner is missing.

I think Motif8mine asked the right questions. He tried to get the original poster to understand the “terminology” - which is so important to both expressing the ISSUE and providing the RESPONSE.

The “issue” here appears to be a basic MIDI and AUDIO issue. I think the original poster is not exactly sure how to express the difference between recording MIDI data (which of course, changes when you change the Motif VOICE that is responding) and AUDIO (which is a documentation of the sound that was used). So changing the Motif’s Voice would not change what the track sounds like.

I can understand why someone would NOT understand what is being said here. (Because of course, the AUDIO is audio, and MIDI does not make sound. Which is great when you already KNOW the difference. And more importantly when you see how it applies here.

You cannot fault the questionner for not knowing this - why would one just “know” this?

If there was any fault here - and I don’t think any “fault” needs to be applied here at all - it is that without the agreed “terminology” it is possible that no real communication will take place.

The mention of “GarageBand” in the initial post is another clue - it is so easy because they don’t let you hurt yourself with making decisions. While Logic is on another whole level of creativity and flexibility and therefore requires some knowledge of what you are doing. That should be expected.

GarageBand = Easy
Logic = Hard

Not really news, and it is, actually, how it should be - and you really wouldn’t want it any other way. Because “hard” is not really the proper description here. If those are the only two terms availble, that is how you would have to describe it. Fortunately, it can be described better with additonal terminology. GarageBand is basic and entry level. Logic is professional and advanced.

As a marketing person if you described your product as “HARD”, you’d be speaking to someone other than your product’s target market. (You never describe your product as “hard"). Your target market is looking for “professional and advanced”. Most folks would agree that there are different levels of software… and there is good reason for this! 

I’m not a user of Logic - but I don’t even think this is a Logic issue, per se - but one that is so very basic (in the first post, you can see that there is no recognition of what different signals travel through that mLAN/Firewire cable. Certainly no recognition that MIDI and AUDIO can be and are involved.

MIDI data cannot be transferred to a CD so that some one could “play it back”.
AUDIO data (typically, stereo, 44.1kHz, 16-bit) can be transferred to a CD so that some one could play it back.

MIDI data can be equated to music notation (a series of coded messages that by themselves do not make sound, they represent the music, but they make no sound). You can change the Cello part to a Trombone by simply handing them the chart. MIDI data can easily be manipulated, corrected and replaced. MIDI data must be sent back to a synthesizer Tone Generator (like the Motif XS) in order to make sound. You can select any of more than a thosand sounds! MIDI data is still a Work-In-Progress.

Audio, once recorded is permanent. It documents the actual sound output of the device. Like you speaking into a microphone -it’s audio, a mic is not MIDI, the audio output of the XS makes a documentable signal. Audio is the finished product.

While an hour’s worth of MIDI data might not amount to 600 to 700KB (kilobytes of data)
Each stereo minute of AUDIO data would occupy 10MB (Megabytes of data)
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I think that what would be helpful is a simple configuration where you are playing back a SONG in the Motif XS - route the main L/R signal via mLAN/Firewire to a STEREO BUS in Logic, and record the result to a STEREO AUDIO TRACK. That will create a stereo audio file that you can convert to a CD.

I think that what would be helpful is a simple configuration where you are playing back a SONG in the Motif XS - route the main L/R signal via mLAN/Firewire to a STEREO BUS in Logic, and record the result to a STEREO AUDIO TRACK. That will create a stereo audio file that you can convert to a CD.

Whew, thank you for your succinct and clear possible answer to the question at hand.  It was greatly appreciated I’m sure and off to be tested out.

No harm was meant in my post.  I was waiting to get to the answer and found none but a linquistic lesson.  Grant you semantics are necessary in conversations, but when a client is frustrated and only wants possible alternatives to try (and by what I saw, he did answer the questions but apparently not well enough for the questioner), then I can imagine the hair pulling that person must have felt.  I know I did because it seemed we were not getting to the question at hand.

State the obvious problems in midi/audio once and get on with it.

You came in, cleared out the air and gave one possible solution.
Your last paragraph was an example of what I waited for, plus a few more enlightening sentences in the rest of the post, which I already knew but would be helpful for someone else perusing these sites.

thank you.

Ok…
I guess it’s time that I respond to this ungrateful maggio person. And, I am going to attempt to be as kind as I can be, under the circumstances. Well, actually- upon further reflection- this is more of an annoucement of sorts.

1) maggio, you don’t know what you are doing! This is evident. And, you lack the most basic understanding of operating both the XS and Logic and sound mixing, recording procedures…

2) The reason you lack these things is- you haven’t read either manual. The manual teaches you the terminology to succeed. You can’t walk into an auto parts store and ask for a ‘car thingy’. And, it’s fairly disrespectful not to do so (i.e., learn the terms), because it forces those who are trying to help to waste their time atttempting to decipher and divine what you mean by some ridiculous term you’ve just pulled out of the sky or learned from some youtube video by DJ- “I don’t know what the hell I’m talking about”.

3) I’ve read the manuals- therefore, I know what I am doing-

4) I don’t have problems. And, any problems that arise, I know how to troubleshoot 99% of them. When I don’t, generous individuals here direct me what to look for- using terminology we both know and utilize…

5) The Motif XS, mLAN, the YSFW Firewire Driver and the current version of Logic have all been out for years now. Any question regarding these have already been asked dozens of times. And, its answer already exists either in this forum, the XS forum, their archives or any number of Logic help forums around the web. You were too lazy to look for it yourself…

6) I want to thank PhillipK, whose Logic 7 posts directed me to the right answers in getting the XS to work with Logic 8. And, for his time served manning this forum: it inspired me to get involved and help those who were struggling like I was. BradWebber, wherever he may be, for his help navigating me through the Motif Classic’s learning curve. Dreamflight- for friendship. DavePolich for the same- and for deep, often not so deep and sometimes tongue in cheek conversations debating absolutely everything and for his help throughout the years. Bad_Mister for everything. To the next patron of the Logic forum- I wish you well- You got it from here…

7) I’m out… Peace…

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