Hi,

I’m heading to demo the MOX8 tomorrow with my MacBook Pro and I have a query regarding the USB interface. I see from Bert’s demo’s he can play and record audio from the VST’s on his laptop. My question is will the built in interface allow me to play my other software instruments via my MOX8 or am i restricted to using the Yamaha VST’s in Cubase?

I want to use my Pianoteq plugin via Logic’s MainStage running on my MacBook Pro plugged into the MOX8 and also use the sounds on the MOX8 (Say piano from Pianoteq and some strings from the MOX8). I see there is a dedicated volume fader for the interface so I’m really hoping yes as it will mean one less piece of equipment. Any answers appreciated.

Hkeys

I’m heading to demo the MOX8 tomorrow with my MacBook Pro and I have a query regarding the USB interface. I see from Bert’s demo’s he can play and record audio from the VST’s on his laptop. My question is will the built in interface allow me to play my other software instruments via my MOX8 or am i restricted to using the Yamaha VST’s in Cubase?

You are not restricted… the built in interface uses an ASIO Driver (Yamaha Steinberg USB v1.3.0) which allows you to send both MIDI and Audio via the USB cable to and back from the computer.

I should mention: Don’t let the “Steinberg” in the name make you think that it can only be used with a Steinberg based software. It is widely useable, in the same way “ASIO” and “VST” are Steinberg innovations - protocols invented by Steinberg - they can be used by most of the popular DAW softwares - they are pretty standard across all music production softwares. This Yamaha Steinberg USB driver works with most any DAW software, if it doesn’t, it would be news (so please let us know).

What the Driver does
The single USB cable is carrying 5 ports of MIDI communication to and from the computer, and as many as 4 Channels (dual stereo buses) to the computer and a stereo DAW return.

The audio portion works with any DAW that can use an ASIO driver.
The MIDI portion works with any USB capable software.

If you want to use the “audio via USB” feature you will need the driver (you do not need Cubase, you can use whatever DAW you desire, including Logic, Digital Performer, Pro Tools, Sonar, Live, Studio One, FL Studio, etc., etc., etc., etc. any DAW that can use an ASIO driver). Using the MOX6/MOX8 as your audio interface will mean you can hear and route signal into and back out of your computer via the MOX. This includes all your other soft synths, DAW audio tracks, as well as *all* your computer audio functions, if you wish.

If you want to use the USB-only portion of the driver, (as when using a different device as your audio interface) you can. All DAW Softwares can use the USB-MIDI communications. The 5 PORTS allow the MOX6/MOX8 to deal with multiple things simultaneously
PORT 1 = normal musical performance data: Note-Ons, Controllers, tempo, etc.
PORT 2 = Remote Control communication to Cubase, Logic, Sonar, Digital Performer
PORT 3 = use the 5-pin MIDI jacks as an interface for one external device
PORT 4 = reserved for bi-directional communication with the MOX6/MOX8 Editor
PORT 5 = used for communication with the REMOTE EDITOR - used to create templates for your favorite soft synth (you get parameter-by-parameter control over your VST in the MOX6/MOX8 screen)

What you cannot do:
In order use the “MOX6/MOX8 EDITOR VST” - you must be able to run VST3 level software.
If your DAW is not yet able to run VST3 devices, you can use the STUDIO MANAGER version of the MOX6/MOX8 Editor.
Either works extremely well.

The EDITOR VST allows you to address your MOX6/MOX8 hardware with the same flexibility as you do any soft synth that is “in the box” (in the computer). It is simply a matter of routing (signal flow).

About controlling external soft synths
The MOX6/MOX8 comes with a disk that includes the REMOTE TOOLS - included in the Remote Tools are several pre-made TEMPLATES to control various hardware, VSTi’s and soft synths… the DAW REMOTE mode not only allows you tight control over Logic, Sonar, Digital Performer and Cubase, but it also gives you parameter level control over your other VSTs. If the TEMPLATE does not appear for your favorite soft synth, you are given the tools to create your own. It is really pretty easy to setup and to customize. You can have as many as 50 templates available for instant recall.

So not only can you start/stop, arm tracks, open/close screens, and completely navigate your favorite (popular) DAW from the front panel of the MOX6/MOX8, you get parameter level control (in the MOX screen) over your favorite soft synths!

Are there advantages to using Yamaha and Cubase
Well, yes, and that is the reason for including the software. For example, the DATA WHEEL becomes an AI KNOB (Advanced Integration knob).. what this does is when you are working (controlling) your DAW and its VSTi, etc. the AI KNOB greatly speeds up editing. You just hover the mouse over the parameter in your VSTi’s graphic interface and the DATA WHEEL is controlling that parameter.

It is really quick and easy. You don’t always want to have to assign something to a specific knob (only those you are going to want to ‘perform’ often… sometimes you just want to change or tweak an item… can’t remember where you mapped that control? Simply move the mouse over the item you want to change, and the DATA WHEEL is controlling it.

It is stuff like that - things Yamaha and Steinberg call “Advanced Integration”. With the 5 MIDI PORTS of communication, there is great potential here for finding a very comfortable workflow in the inevitable battle to find the creative sweet spot that we all know exists between hardware and software!

You can think of the version of Cubase AI that is included, as an introduction to the whole Advanced Integration initiative. Rather than running things parallel, the AI initiative is attempting to make working with external hardware devices as easy and compelling as doing everything in the computer. Total Recall of settings is just a part of it. Real time control and automation is another part of it.

Thanks Bad_Mister,

That pretty much answers my question. Will report back on my findings after I see it tomorrow. Looks like an nice board for the price and although I think I’d miss some features such as the faders I think I could have a work around with the assignable knobs. Still the interface is a major attraction. Thanks again

Hi Bad_Mister,

That does explain a lot, and pretty much the only problem I have is routing the Mox6 board as a VST through my external Sound Card.  You explain that “The EDITOR VST allows you to address your MOX6/MOX8 hardware with the same flexibility as you do any soft synth that is “in the box” (in the computer)”, this seems to be only the case if using the MOX6 as the ASIO Sound Card and not another external, or again is this down to routing, without having to use the analogue out’s at the back of the unit?

Also what would the full version of Cubase give me over the AI version bundled, can you use more than one soundcard for instance (as in Sonar)?

@skinmechanic

If you are going to use an external audio interface with the MOX6/MOX8, you must connect to it using analog (1/4") cables - please check your audio interface’s documentation, I’m sure it will tell you that you need to connect your audio source to it via analog cables. I don’t think I understand your point/question.

Even if you are using the MOX6/MOX8 as your audio interface, you still need to connect the analog outputs of the synth to your sound system. You seem to think the purpose of an audio interface is to eliminate analog cables… it is not. Not at all. Typically, an audio interface for your computer will take analog audio in and send it digitally to your computer. It additionaly takes digital audio in from the computer and routes to your sound system.

You can still use the MOX6/MOX8 Editor VST with an external audio interface (other than the MOX itself). Simply connect your MOX to that device (with 1/4” cables as recommended by your audio interface), connect your audio interface to your speaker system. In the MOX6/MOX8 Editor VST select your audio interface’s driver as the AUDIO BUS OUTPUTS.

When I refer to VSTi Routing - you have to understand that any VSTi has a Track to store the MIDI data that you perform, then that MIDI data is routed to the synth engine, which outputs audio. The MOX is external (to the computer) so routing of the MIDI data must be routed to the MOX6/MOX8 EDITOR VST (which is in bi-directional/simultaneous communication with the MOX hardware)… the MOX hardware generates the audio data and returns it to your DAW via the routing as established in the EDITOR VST. As far as your DAW is concerned it treats it the same as any VSTi.

What happens “in the box” for your soft synth, is handled by the MOX6/MOX8 Editor VST and routing for the MOX. The significant thing is you can now process your MOX sound (returning audio) with on-board VST Effects, etc., use Export Audio Mixdown, Freeze and other features, formally the domain of just soft synths.

Sorry, I do not know much about SONAR… so I cannot compare how it works compared to Sonar.

I understand you still need to have cables for plugging into a Monitor or PA to get the sound if your using the MoX6 built in soundcard, this is normal for anything.  I just remember working with the Virus TI.  Where the Audio was streamed to the DAW via USB (within the unit’s VSTi), then routed back out to my external Audio Interface, which is what I wanted to do with the MoX6.

Sorry, I don’t know the Virus TI, at all. But what you describe is exactly what is happening with the MOX6/MOX8 except you don’t need an external audio interface. The MOX6/MOX8 IS an audio interface!

Very true it is, it would suggest then my workflow must change, what I used to be able to do is because I had a fair number of outboard synths, they were all routed through my external soundcard I/O using Analogue inputs, and my Virus TI was a plugin via a USB connection only, and simply the sound routed through my Soundcard’s ASIO drivers, as it was the chosen ASIO soundcard, The Audio of the VirusTI still routed through the USB into the computer, and through my external ASIO soundcard as a VST.

I guess the moX doesn’t do that unless you use the MoX as the ASIO soundcard.  One thing I have noticed in Cubase AI is you can only have one soundcard, you could have more than 1 soundcard routed in SONAR.  Just a Pity Sonar isn’t VST3 compatible.  I cannot even use the Studio manager, as it’s not 64bit compatible.  i will just have to figure out either a better workflow, or ditch the MoX6 altogether which is a shame as the sounds on this thing are excellent.

skinmechanic - 31 May 2011 08:42 AM

Very true it is, it would suggest then my workflow must change, what I used to be able to do is because I had a fair number of outboard synths, they were all routed through my external soundcard I/O using Analogue inputs, and my Virus TI was a plugin via a USB connection only, and simply the sound routed through my Soundcard’s ASIO drivers, as it was the chosen ASIO soundcard, The Audio of the VirusTI still routed through the USB into the computer, and through my external ASIO soundcard as a VST.

I guess the moX doesn’t do that unless you use the MoX as the ASIO soundcard.  One thing I have noticed in Cubase AI is you can only have one soundcard, you could have more than 1 soundcard routed in SONAR.  Just a Pity Sonar isn’t VST3 compatible.  I cannot even use the Studio manager, as it’s not 64bit compatible.  i will just have to figure out either a better workflow, or ditch the MoX6 altogether which is a shame as the sounds on this thing are excellent.

The Studio Manager standalone 32bit version runs fine in 64bit windows 7.  I use Sonar XI an the mox editor works fine.  I first installed the VST version and that didn’t work. duh!  I think Sonar users will have to wait for vst3 support.  The Cubase integration is very nice but Cubase AI is primitive compared to Sonar XI - I know, apples and oranges.

And beside no one would consider ditching the “excellent” sounding tone engine because they don’t want to change… you’ll find a way to make it work. Ha! :)

Not really, with what I’ve experienced with Cubase, I prefer SONAR and the Workflow of that DAW.  Had it official from Yamaha today, the MoX WILL NOT stream audio through it’s USB ,if your using another Soundcard as your main ASIO driver.  Pity it doesn;t state that when going on about integration with the DAW and recording Audio through USB in its marketing blurb.  Never mind I’ll stick with Sonar, and actually yes got the Studio Manager to work with 64bit, even though the Yamaha website states 32bit.  I just wish manufacturers would catch up with what Access have done with their Virus range since 2007, and allow streaming of Audio to behave like a VST instrument, so it can route through your own existing soundcards.  Still for me compared to my Fantom XR, the MoX soundwise is superior.

Also got it official from Cakewalk, VST3 support will come in a later version, it’s been slow in coming as few vendors have taken up any of the facilities provided in the VST3 format.

Thanks for passing on the info on future VST3 support in SONAR.  Now lets hope Yamaha is on the Beta program to insure its VSTIs are working when this comes out.

I am interested how in Sonar you can use multiple soundcards (devices) when using ASIO.  That only worked for me using non-asio drivers in SONAR.