Old Motifator threads are available in the Archive.
bkvogel
Total Posts: 30
Joined 09-09-2010 status: Regular |
This question has been asked but the context was a little different so I thought I would ask it another way. If I have an MR816csx and I want to listen to 2 Channel WDM audio without using Cubase this is not an issue. If I connect a Motif XF via FW16 is it possible to listen to 2 channels without Cubase using the WDM Routing through the MR816? There are times when there is no need to run Cubase as you just want to use the Motif without connecting the Motif’s digital or analog outputs directly to the MR816. I realize you can’t turn off the computer but do you have to have Cubase running to listen to 2 channels coming from the Motif XF FW through the MR816? Thanks, Brian |
Bad_Mister
Total Posts: 36620
Joined 07-30-2002 status: Moderator |
If I understand your question correctly, you want to use the MR816CSX as your basic mixer without Cubase. Yes, you can but you have to connect the audio outputs of the XF to the MR816CSX. Think of it like this: it is acting as a mixer so you need to connect whatever you wish to hear to the mixer. Setup its channels and route it to your speakers. We assume your MR816CSX is connected to your monitor speakers. Use the MR EDITOR (which can be found by right clicking the YSFW Driver icon in your System Tray, or going to Programs > Steinberg MR EDITOR. You can use it setup the MR816: Setup the analog inputs to which you connect the Motif XF. |
bkvogel
Total Posts: 30
Joined 09-09-2010 status: Regular |
No, I know I can use my MR as a basic mixer. What I want to do is route audio out of the FW16 to the PC then using the WDM driver route it through my MR to my attached speakers. Basically avoid using the Motif Outputs all together and for this configuration avoid using the DAW. Under the MR control panel there is WDM Audio Routing. I’m assuming that once the FW16 is installed there will be an option to select it. Couldn’t you select it as the Input and the MR as the Output and Output 2 channel of the FW back into the MR? This is purely a handy way to monitor the Motif without using up any of the MR analog inputs. Brian |
JimH
Total Posts: 51
Joined 11-21-2005 status: Experienced |
I think the answer is in Bad Mister’s post here.
So the digital signal comes into the computer via the ASIO driver. You’d need some application to read the data from one device and write it to the other. Normally Cubase does this by way of its monitoring function. But you should be able to do it with some other smaller program whose job is simply to pump the data from one device to the other. It would be smaller and would start up faster than Cubase. But I’m not sure if anyone has written such a program. Jim P.S. On a side note, I don’t think applying the term “peer-to-peer” to the current interfaces is quite right. That would imply all connected devices are peers and can fulfill the same roles. But this isn’t the case. Rather it should be called a master-slave (or client-server) connection because the computer is the master and the other devices are slaves. The devices like FW16E cannot be masters, AFAIK. The old mLAN was more of a peer-to-peer arrangement. |
bkvogel
Total Posts: 30
Joined 09-09-2010 status: Regular |
Hi Jim, thanks for the thread. I agree that from an ASIO perspective you would have to an application to route the monitoring but in this instance it’s from a WDM driver that I’m enquiring. I don’t have FW here to test but I’m assuming from the PDF’s that I could find that it uses the same WDM driver and CPL so effectly the MR and FW become one. I have found some discouraging information in the XF manual that states the audio from the FW can only be monitored from the XF’s own outputs. This leads me to believe they are in fact independent but again the manual makes no mention of the MR and FW together. Surely from an ASIO perspective the MR and FW become one in that you can monitor with in Cubase by using the outputs of the MR but again there is little information even on that. Either way it’s not looking to good for me. Brian From the FW16 PDF:
7
NOTE
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bkvogel
Total Posts: 30
Joined 09-09-2010 status: Regular |
Bump to the top cause I’m somebody who doesn’t hate the player, playa, or hate the game! :-) Brian |
Bad_Mister
Total Posts: 36620
Joined 07-30-2002 status: Moderator |
I don’t just want to say no it is not possible. I never (ever) use the WDM portion to do anything with signal, other than to play back. I’ve never used an WDM application to record anything from an external device - so for the answer we will have to wait. I understand that there are WDM applications that can do something with incoming signal - I’ve never used them for anything. Not really sure I know what it is you wish to do (what is the game here?). The MR816 can be configured and used without the computer (as the last configuration will persist, even if you do not power on the computer). You can certainly send audio from the Motif XF to the computer’s input via WDM, but we need to know what application you are going to use that uses the WDM driver to record or use that incoming signal. Let us know so we can correctly pass on your question. |
drpopper1
Total Posts: 57
Joined 08-22-2010 status: Experienced |
Just a thought ... what about developing a mixer/interface with a Firewire input that can actually take the audio and midi data in via firwire and send it through to the DAW ?
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bkvogel
Total Posts: 30
Joined 09-09-2010 status: Regular |
I realize this may sound like a strange configuration but it really isn’t. So bear with me and I’ll explain the method to my madness. A little background is needed; I work in IT in a Fortune 200 company so I’m in front of a computer screen for most of the day (12+ Hours). With that in mind you can appreciate immediacy and beauty of a dedicated workstation. Below is the current configuration, 1 scenario and some possible solution. Brian
Configuration:
Scenarios 1:
Problem:
Solution 1:
Outcome:
Solution 2:
Outcome:
Solution 3:
Outcome:
Solution 4:
Outcome:
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Bad_Mister
Total Posts: 36620
Joined 07-30-2002 status: Moderator |
We are going to assume you have the units connected in a daisy-chain - otherwise we have to totally question configuration step 2. (we disagree with the statement that is what FW16 is for… but that is not going to help you here). If the MR816 is connected to the computer via firewire, and is the device feeding the speakers, then your daisy-chain should be as follows: Motif XF --> MR816CSX --> Computer
They both should not be connected directly to the computer independently. Your tabs should reflect:
If a device is acting as a mixer (in this case the MR816CSX), you can only monitor devices connected to it (obviously). It is as simple and as complex as that. If all the gear was analog I think it would be very clear, but it is the virtual-ness of the daisy-chain that you are not understanding. The XF is not sending audio signal to the MR without first going through Cubse. When CUBASE is in the link, you realize that you are monitoring the Motif XF through it (via the “Direct Monitoring” setting). The way the signal gets from the XF to the MR is via a through from Cubase. So unless you have an analog connection via the 8 available analog inputs or a digital connection via S/PDIF you will not be able to monitor the XF. Otherwise, the Motif XF is not connected to the MR816, period. I’m pretty sure you understand this. The Motif XF’s audio output arrives in the computer directly. And you are using the application, Cubase, to receive its audio input and you are routing through the application so it can be monitored via the MR816CSX. The setting that allows this to happen is found DEVICES > DEVICE SETUP > VST AUDIO SYSTEM > Yamaha Steinberg FW ASIO > Direct Monitoring
If the real issue is:
Direct Monitoring
When using the MR816CSX with Cubase this option (DIRECT MONITORING) is normally checked. The whole “DIRECT MONITORING” function that you setup in Cubase is so that you can monitor signals arriving in Cubase through the MR816 hardware.
In the meantime we suggest these possible solutions:
MR816 --> Motif XF --> Computer You will need to use the “RESET DEVICE NUMBER” function on the YSFW Control Panel to reverse the units for the computer (the physical connection is one thing, the computer, remember sees them separately… by resetting the device number you are making one first.
Connect the MR816CSX’s analog outputs 1/2 to the A/D Inputs of the Motif XF (as the Motif XF is now acting as the mixer, yes you still need an analog connection - we assume the A/D INPUT is available). This will save you from having to purchase a second MR816CSX or using a separate mixer to increase the number of analog inputs to your MR.
2) Wait for a Windows application that can take advantage of the YSFW driver settings… And here I have to admit, since I never really explored this in serious way until now, such a thing may already exist and I just may not be aware of it (never needed to think about it). You may want to contact Steinberg directly and see if they have a clever solution (short of purchasing a second MR816, lol, they did provide for as many as three units that can be daisy-chained for when you are out of inputs). You may want to check with Steinberg support directly as they may have a different answer for your dilemma (short of buying another MR).. let us know. |
bkvogel
Total Posts: 30
Joined 09-09-2010 status: Regular |
BM, thanks for the concise explanation of ASIO direct monitoring but with all due repsect I’m not talking about ASIO. I will post the question to Steinberg but I’m not holding my breathe on getting an answer. After all not all forums have a Bad_Mister. I totally understand your mastering of ASIO as it truely the PRO protocal so maybe that is where we are disconnecting. Since I don’t have a FW here and am only working off of the PDF and I’m making a few assumptions that may be inaccurite. Bellow are my assumptions. I’ve also included some screenshots. In these screenshot I am listening to a Phish CD I ripped using Mediaplayer through the MR to my Monitors. There is no ASIO or DAW involved in this process. I’ve also included screenshot of WDM Routing. Is someone happens to have both units please test it if you can. Brian
Assumption 1:
Assumption 2:
Assumption 3:
Assumption 4:
File Attachments
WDM Screenshot.docx (File Size: 596KB - Downloads: 433) |
JimH
Total Posts: 51
Joined 11-21-2005 status: Experienced |
Pardon me for butting in. Someone official can correct me if I’m wrong. I don’t own any of the equipment in question. This is just what seems most likely to me. I don’t think what you are suggesting will work. I think the word “Routing†in the WDM dialog may cause some confusion. If you add an FW16E, it will show up in the list, but I seriously doubt you could route the input to output. By “routing†I think they’re just referring to choosing which devices are used for the normal Windows audio. Since the FW driver handles up to three devices, you need to selected which device you want to output Windows audio to, and which device you input Windows audio from. But it won’t do the routing job of copying audio from the input to output. (Besides, how would you tell it you didn’t want it to do that?) Drivers normally only provide a way to get data to and from hardware, and don’t presume to do much else. And they’re usually passive in that they don’t get any processor time unless some application calls one of their functions. So a driver wouldn’t have any processor time to continuously read data from the input and write it to the output. Hopefully I understood what you’re saying this time. :-) Jim |
drpopper1
Total Posts: 57
Joined 08-22-2010 status: Experienced |
As I’ve said previously ...why not make a mixer that directly accepts firewire and USB instrument inputs ?
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bkvogel
Total Posts: 30
Joined 09-09-2010 status: Regular |
I’ve posted the question on the Steinberg Forum. Below is a link for anyone who might be interested. Brian |
Funkster
Total Posts: 449
Joined 07-20-2008 status: Enthusiast |
They used to have that. It was called mLan. It is dead. As far as USB, current USB 2.0 would be hard to do because it needs drivers. USB3 is supposed to be better in that regard… DF |