I have an ES and the mLan board and, from the ES manual:

PAGE 177 :
Among the AUDIO IN parts, Insertion effects cannot be applied to the mLAN parts and AIEB2 parts.

PAGE 180 :
The System Effects (Reverb, Chorus), the Master EQ, and the Master Effect are not applied to the sound output through the ASSIGNABLE OUTPUT jacks
(including those of the AIEB2) or the mLAN connector of the mLAN16E board. (Only the Part EQ and the Insertion Effect are applied.)

PAGE 292 :
Digital Sampling Frequency (when the AIEB2 has been installed)
48kHz, 44.1kHz, 32kHz.
Sampling Frequency via the mLAN (when the mLAN16E has been installed) 44.1kHz (fixed).

AAAAARrrrrRRGHHHH*&%*$^&$%^% !
Also, EERrrrrrgghhhhhh($&%&* !

Will these things be the case on the XF with the firewire card?
Any plans for a 02R96 firewire card?

Will these things be the case on the XF with the firewire card?

Yes. And not for any other reason that that is how signal is routed. Same would be true on any mixing console. System Effects are dealt with on a Channel SEND/ composite RETURN basis. By the nature of being SYSTEM Effects they are the anti-thesis of an assignable output.

If you have ever worked in a multi-track studio you know each channel of the mixer has an AUX SEND (those are the SYSTEM Effects sends)… they are combined to an AUX SEND MASTER which is then patched via the studio’s patchbay to a particular effect, say the reverb.

An assignable output is like a direct out. It is what get recorded to the multi-track. During a recording session the system effects are only returned to the monitor mix. You do not record with effects like REVERB, you only monitor them and you commit to the amount later during mixdown.

The assignable output is just the single instrument part, isolated from all others. It is a direct out.

You can (and should) read up on how mixing consoles work and it will better help you understand how the routing of the mixer in the Motif, Motif ES, Motif XS and Motif XF work. They work just like any professional recording or live console when it comes to SENDS/RETURNS and DIRECT OUTPUTS.

Below is a close up of the 02R96 block diagram. You can see that the Direct Outs (which are like assignable outputs on the Motif-series) are separate from the AUX SENDS (which are like the REVERB/CHORUS Sends to the SYSTEM EFFECTS), they are “pre” the Pan Pots, and can even be pre or post the channel fader.

You can also see that the “EQ” is right before the “INSERT EFFECT” points. And would be available to the DIRECT OUTPUT… just as it is in the Motif-series. The AUX SENDS go off and are ultimately patched to an effect. The signal is combined before going into the effect. The return is way later… YOu asked aobut the 02R96, if you understand direct outs there you can understand how Assignable outputs work on the Motif-series.

When I used to teach audio engineering, we had a room down the hall for the reverb chamber, and I would physically walk the class into that room and let them listen to signals that were being routed to the reverb chamber. It is a composite of all the signals being sent via the AUX SENDS - what you heard was the snare, but no kick, the vocal, a little bit of the piano, but no bass… All the signals that were sent to the chamber were audible. Then we would go back into the control room and solo the return… what you would hear is those signals now with reverberation.

A Direct out’s purpose is isolation. You don’t want any composite signal with some snare, vocal etc., present. You want the isolation (complete).
A composite signal is the opposite of isolation!

Hope that helps.

Click thumbnail to see full-size image

Bad_Mister, thanks for the reply.

It would be nice to be able to send a mixdown out via firewire. The Motif, and a lot of other keyboards, unfortunately don’t integrate very easily into a digital studio because you have to use the keyboard’s digital out as the master clock for the whole studio unless you can find a way to get a clock signal into the keyboard. With multiple keyboards this gets worse of course. If you could get a high resolution digital output from a unit that is receiving a clock on the same wire (firewire), it would be great.

Isolated direct outputs are nice, but there are probably a lot of players who would like to easily digitally record the sound that they have put together on the Motif, and have used through rehearsals, with one wire. If you could optionally simply assign the master L/R Motif output to two of the firewire channels it would be a nice feature.

After all, Yamaha wouldn’t want to say that you should abandon their reverb for the mighty Lexicon or Bricasti at the last minute :-)

And you wouldn’t want to trust your sound to the loathsome, despicable, wretched engineer would you?...just kidding.

I’m just saying it would be good to just get the signal that you are hearing out of the thing easily, and not let great new features make you start over if you don’t want to.

It would be nice to be able to send a mixdown out via firewire.

Not sure I follow you. You can certainly send a mixdown out via firewire on the Motif XS/XF.

The Motif, and a lot of other keyboards, unfortunately don’t integrate very easily into a digital studio because you have to use the keyboard’s digital out as the master clock for the whole studio unless you can find a way to get a clock signal into the keyboard.

The Motif XS/XF can slave to an external clock source at 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, or 96kHz.

With multiple keyboards this gets worse of course. If you could get a high resolution digital output from a unit that is receiving a clock on the same wire (firewire), it would be great.

You can.

Isolated direct outputs are nice, but there are probably a lot of players who would like to easily digitally record the sound that they have put together on the Motif, and have used through rehearsals, with one wire. If you could optionally simply assign the master L/R Motif output to two of the firewire channels it would be a nice feature.

The 16 firewire outputs are configured as the master L/R output plus the 14 assignable outputs (which can be assigned odd/even pairs or as mono buses). See graphic below.

I’m just saying it would be good to just get the signal that you are hearing out of the thing easily, and not let great new features make you start over if you don’t want to.

There is certainly a way to do this. As mentioned above you can route any and all of the signal to the Master L/R (firewire) Outputs, as required.

Additionally, when routing signal to the assignable direct outputs, it is assumed you are doing so to isolate them and process them in some external processor (in your DAW) - if you’d like you can then return them to the Motif XS/XF via firewire - remember there is a FW Return to the internal mixer.

We truly understand what you are requesting being (in a former life) one of those “loathsome, despicable, wretched” (yikes!) engineers. :)

If you want to get the sound you like, the routing scenario is very flexible.  When the time comes when computers and software can easily handle multiple digital audio systems simultaneously - then it will truly be a better place, but because we are still multi-tracking you can find a way to do it all. Not sure where you got the idea that the Motif XS/XF could not accept a clock signal via firewire (that has never been true… clock source can be the computer… if anything it took 4-5 years to get the Macintosh to understand that something other than it could be used as a master clock, it could be your mixer (which makes the most sense, in most cases) or it could be the keyboard.

If we misunderstood your post, please let us know.

Click thumbnail to see full-size image

“The 16 firewire outputs are configured as the master L/R output plus the 14 assignable outputs”

This is very good news. Bye ES, hello XF. Thanks!

We will be posting more tutorials on how to get the most out of using the firewire, and on music production both with and without external software!