Physical and Analog functions
Does it have different D/A, A/D converters ?
Yes, the A/D/ and D/A have been tweaked and the analog section has been significantly improved using circuits designed for the CP1

Could you elaborate a little on this?..

(Does it relate to an old discussion about how the XS sounded “thin” and “cold” compared to the ES?)

kokocalamar - 05 August 2010 11:14 AM

Physical and Analog functions
Does it have different D/A, A/D converters ?
Yes, the A/D/ and D/A have been tweaked and the analog section has been significantly improved using circuits designed for the CP1

Could you elaborate a little on this?..

(Does it relate to an old discussion about how the XS sounded “thin” and “cold” compared to the ES?)

Really?

The XS sound thin and cold compared to the ES?

The ES had a phat sound to it. The Roland X sounded thin and cold you’re saying the XS sounds sorta like the Roland Fantom keyboards?

kday - 05 August 2010 01:23 PM

kokocalamar - 05 August 2010 11:14 AM

Physical and Analog functions
Does it have different D/A, A/D converters ?
Yes, the A/D/ and D/A have been tweaked and the analog section has been significantly improved using circuits designed for the CP1

Could you elaborate a little on this?..

(Does it relate to an old discussion about how the XS sounded “thin” and “cold” compared to the ES?)

Really?

The XS sound thin and cold compared to the ES?

The ES had a phat sound to it. The Roland X sounded thin and cold you’re saying the XS sounds sorta like the Roland Fantom keyboards?

kday, take it easy.

I’m not saying anything. I was only referring to some discussions a while ago, where people claimed that the XS lacked “something” in the sound compared to the ES.

They would compare the same patch on both, and some claimed that it sounded different, albeit in somewhat vague terms.

I owned an ES for two years, but only had the XS for a few weeks, so I can’t comment on it.

kokocalamar - 05 August 2010 01:40 PM

kday - 05 August 2010 01:23 PM

kokocalamar - 05 August 2010 11:14 AM

Physical and Analog functions
Does it have different D/A, A/D converters ?
Yes, the A/D/ and D/A have been tweaked and the analog section has been significantly improved using circuits designed for the CP1

Could you elaborate a little on this?..

(Does it relate to an old discussion about how the XS sounded “thin” and “cold” compared to the ES?)

Really?

The XS sound thin and cold compared to the ES?

The ES had a phat sound to it. The Roland X sounded thin and cold you’re saying the XS sounds sorta like the Roland Fantom keyboards?

kday, take it easy.

I’m not saying anything. I was only referring to some discussions a while ago, where people claimed that the XS lacked “something” in the sound compared to the ES.

They would compare the same patch on both, and some claimed that it sounded different, albeit in somewhat vague terms.

I owned an ES for two years, but only had the XS for a few weeks, so I can’t comment on it.

This was one of those subjective topics which stemmed from a certain amount of confusion. The XS presets are deliberately programmed to be quieter than the maximum amplitude they could be, and they are also (for want of a better way of putting it) more ‘delicate’. The reason for this is that they are designed with multi-track sequencer recordings in mind. Once you start layering many voices together on the XS, the result is noticeably better than it is on the ES, for this reason. I’ve had an ES since they came out, and an XS since, well.. they came out :)

Dave Polich did a test to prove that the XS was not quieter than the ES, which involved using a sine wave without any processing on it.

The XS is just as loud as the ES, if you boost the internal level of the pre-programmed voices from their conservative defaults. As to ‘fat’ or ‘thin’, this is a function of the programming of a voice, not the hardware itself.

Df.

So Yamaha, any info on the converters?..

It seems to me that if they have been “tweaked”, there would be a difference in sound betwwen the XS and XF which I find intriguing to say the least! :-)

The differences were noticable enough that all the Yamaha product specialists commented that the XF sound better on the same sounds than the XS before they knew there was a technical difference.  In other words for someone familiar with the sound of the XS, the difference was audible right away. 

As we said, the information we have is that some of circuits and tuning of the D/A convertors that were developed for the CP1 were used in the XF.

In the end, you’ll just have to wait to hear and judge for yourself.

Yamaha_US - 15 August 2010 11:30 AM

The differences were noticable enough that all the Yamaha product specialists commented that the XF sound better on the same sounds than the XS before they knew there was a technical difference.  In other words for someone familiar with the sound of the XS, the difference was audible right away. 

As we said, the information we have is that some of circuits and tuning of the D/A convertors that were developed for the CP1 were used in the XF.

In the end, you’ll just have to wait to hear and judge for yourself.

Ok, thanks for your reply.

Now I’m REALLY looking forward to trying out the XF!

Oh, the suspense…

BTW Athan, how would you describe the difference? Or is it too abstract to put into words?

Curious George here.

Yamaha_US - 15 August 2010 11:30 AM

The differences were noticable enough that all the Yamaha product specialists commented that the XF sound better on the same sounds than the XS before they knew there was a technical difference.  In other words for someone familiar with the sound of the XS, the difference was audible right away. 

As we said, the information we have is that some of circuits and tuning of the D/A convertors that were developed for the CP1 were used in the XF.

In the end, you’ll just have to wait to hear and judge for yourself.

I’m glad to hear this.  Just wondering (as a current XS owner, and soon to be XS and XF owner), can the AD/DA circuit tuning be done/installed for my XS as an upgrade?

This is just hogwash. it may sound ‘barely better’ but overall quality is same as motif xs. if you are going to use this as a factor to ‘upgrade’ your XS, you have got to be retarded.

The main specs are still the same:
16 bit, 44.1khz samples/internally
24bit converters

A tweaking of the driver may create a *slight* improvement that usually can be made up with a mastering software or even internal effects/EQs on the XS or something else.

Guys, if you want to upgrade to an XF, do so when yamaha introduces alternative synthesis types, step sequencing, piano roll and the like. Protest with your cash!!

dingo_klectos - 16 August 2010 07:13 PM

This is just hogwash. it may sound ‘barely better’ but overall quality is same as motif xs. if you are going to use this as a factor to ‘upgrade’ your XS, you have got to be retarded.

The main specs are still the same:
16 bit, 44.1khz samples/internally
24bit converters

A tweaking of the driver may create a *slight* improvement that usually can be made up with a mastering software or even internal effects/EQs on the XS or something else.

Guys, if you want to upgrade to an XF, do so when yamaha introduces alternative synthesis types, step sequencing, piano roll and the like. Protest with your cash!!

Not all converters are created equal. There are VERY audible distinctions between different conversion circuits regardless of sample rate. This is a result of the hardware,not the software. example: Apogee D/A versus Prism D/A versus Black Lion D/A. They all sound very different when referencing the same audio source.

Dingo’s just mad because the XF doesn’t have enough Lady Gaga sounds in
the presets.

He’s also been hoping one of the new screen themes would feature Lady
Gaga’s picture. But it doesn’t look like that option will be available
either.

DavePolich - 16 August 2010 10:20 PM

Dingo’s just mad because the XF doesn’t have enough Lady Gaga sounds in
the presets.

He’s also been hoping one of the new screen themes would feature Lady
Gaga’s picture. But it doesn’t look like that option will be available
either.

Lol man snap yourself out of the trance...i see that you are hypnotized like the 100 million other poor souls.

Lady gag gag sounds? I bet you programmed some them that she uses as presets haha.

DavePolich - 16 August 2010 10:20 PM

Dingo’s just mad because the XF doesn’t have enough Lady Gaga sounds in
the presets.

He’s also been hoping one of the new screen themes would feature Lady
Gaga’s picture. But it doesn’t look like that option will be available
either.

But do u think ,should we hope that next generation of Yamaha Workstation, will future Lady Gaga sounds and a new screen themes with Lady Gaga also with 24bit/96khz sound engin, amd phisical moddeling unique for all of each instruments, also balansed analog imputs andd outputs, color tuchscreen, flexiblu effect roting? or next Motif will be only jast bigger memory and some minor futers?

p.s. as for now I am sticking with Kurzweil, it doesn’t not have Lady Gaga either, but beside smaller mamory and color screen Kurzweil PC3K8 blows Motif XF very easeliy..