The basics begins here: Logic IS ALWAYS the Master Clock and the XS is always the slave. The clocks do not need ‘time to sync up"…

Are your recordings sample accurate?

I’m speaking in general terms not playing semantics with audio jargon. While I do not use loops, everything is live recorded into Logic or live recorded into the XS and synced into Logic, there is no audible sync problems in my recordings… Then again I am not trying to create robotic stringently quantized fare either. I often choose, (depending on the ‘feel’ I want to create), to play behind or before the beat but, there are no sync problems…

They line up perfectly?

Also, depending on what I am doing, I am constantly switching between the following Quick Setups on the XS…

The Quick Setup feature of the XS automatically adjusts MIDI Sync and Local On settings via the Sequencer Setup button. Press ‘F3’ for ‘Quick Setup’ and choose Option #1 (Stand Alone operation- not using mLAN), Option #2 (Recording internal sequencer to computer), or Option #3 (Recording ‘live’ to computer) or, Option #4 (Recording Arpeggio to computer) depending on how you are recording into Logic.

Thanks for your reply. The type of music I make is percussion heavy and requires dead on timing. Sometimes im able to nudge things and get the original feel back (listen to track 14 on Nelly’s Sweat Suite album, or track 3 on his Part People single, but most times im not (listen to track 10 on Mario’s GO album). I use motif’s exclusively, and there were definitly “feel” issues on that song.

Bottom line. I do this for a living. I need it to work correctly without the guess work. When i press play in cubase, it should sound identical to when i press play on my MPC. Right now it does not. I really hope someone figures this one out. Im willing to try anything to get it working correctly. Thanks

hotbeatz - 22 July 2009 01:46 AM

The type of music I make is percussion heavy and requires dead on timing… Sometimes im able to nudge things and get the original feel back… I use motif’s exclusively, and there were definitly “feel” issues on that song.

When i press play in cubase, it should sound identical to when i press play on my MPC. Right now it does not.

It sounds like your issue is a little different from the others. Or rather, that there are two separate issues going on. Maybe I’m wrong, but what I refer to as feel is quite different from sync.

First, ‘Feel’: the XS sequencer has a note resolution of 480 ppq (parts per quarter note), a MPC 5000 has a note resolution of 960 ppq (not sure which one you have). Finally, Logic Pro 8’s note resolution is 960 ppq. The end result, in my experience, is this: since Logic Pro’s resolution is much higher, if I record into Logic and transfer it back to the XS, there are subtleties that the Logic performance may have that do translate well in the XS.

Overly simplistic analogy: it would be as I played a dotted 1/32rd note in Logic or the MPC 5000 but the XS could only read it as a 32nd note. I have not experienced this the other way around- that is, where the ‘feel’ of the passage in the XS did not translate well into the Logic, or Pro Tools for that matter…

Second Issue, and I believe different is one of MIDI drift which is helped by ensuring the XS and the MPC are not set to transmit MIDI sync, MTC, etc… and that Logic remains the Master… And, the recorded audio is affecting by among other things the I/O buffer size…

I’m checking out some things today, let me get back to you…

ps- I have read a few MPC 5000 posts referring to problems with sync…

Subject is kinda driftin toward this PPQ & the MPC subject, which I find very interesting, but the original post refers just to Logic.  Not the sequencer in the Motif.  Motif as just a sound source.  Create MIDI 16th notes in Logic routed to the MotifXS to trigger a staccatto sound.  Then record that audio.  Then playback BOTH at the same time.  Is it an exact match?

Actually, the problem im seeing is pretty much the same as what your seeing. I dont use the motif’s sequencer. I see the same results that you see when i do as you said, letting the daw trigger the motif (this rules out the MPC).

Newly recorded material is placed randomly (between 3 and 30 milliseconds, sometimes larger) slightly before or after where its supposed to be. I also get the same results when triggering from the MPC.

It’s not daw specific. This tells me that either Cubase, Logic and Samplitude are all flawed or daws aren’t the problem (more than likely rules out daws)

I dont hear problems while playing a sequence from the MPC or my daw before recording (this rules out midi jitter). Things only get misplaced once they’ve been rendered to audio.

The only other thing we have in common are Yammies FW drivers. Hmmm.

I have yet to hear anyone say that they DONT have this issue if they look closely. Render any sequenced peice of music to audio, now render it again several times, compare. Each take will be slightly different on the time line. Now hit play. Normally you should hear a much louder version of your cumulative recordings because amplitude is additive. Instead, i hear what sounds like a heavy phaser effect because things are out of place.

I have read similar topics in the LogicProHelp forum from others that do not have or use Yamaha FW drivers.

Practically speaking, I spend my time in my responsibilities: Family, Church and Recording. In addition to that I try to help as much as I can in this forum in gratitude to those who helped me several years ago when I didn’t know push from shove…

I’m busy like you guys probably are- facing deadlines, putting out fires, catching a breath here and there. I don’t have time to do experiments to try and prove or disprove a point because, I’m making music. So, while I have doubled tracks at one time or another and for various purposes- I have no musical reason to continuously duplicate tracks to see how much of a variation and phase may occur… Because the end result is, I’m not one step closer to getting my project done… And, when I ‘duplicate’, I have the original file, and duplicate that. I don’t I go through a time-consuming process that would introduce the problems you are talking about.

By the way, there is not much difference in asking a musician with an impeccable sense of timing to dub over his own playing. There are going to variations in the timing and a doubling or phased effect as well…

Anyway, I’m still pondering whether there is something apart from the MIDI Sync, latency and mLAN Monitor Settings that can help you guys out so you can be another step closer to making the music you love…

Peace…

As in a lot of these subjects I chime in on, I’m mostly just curious.  Exact strikes here and there or MIDI jitter, etc… all are fixable after you’ve laid the track down. I’m just a curious person about these things.

What are you guys using to get MIDI out. USB or a midi interface box.. Some issues could be there.

I use the USB connection with Logic, and noticed a similar issue. The beginning of the audio got chopped, cause i started with a cymbal crash on the very first note.. I just went into voice edit, and put a real fast fade in. It was only on drum track, other tracks waveforms were fine..

I’m using the Motif’s mLan for midi and audio. And the situation is reversed from what you’re describing.  According to the macro close-up, the audio is sounding before the midi note.  Nothing is getting chopped.

Im using the midi ports on a Yamaha N8 mixer, then firewire to the pc. Im starting to think that the MPC is not responding to the pc’s play signal on time. It starts promptly sometimes and sometimes it takes a second. The problem is that the computer is recording regardless. So everything ends up off. Angelonyc, if you record a blank lead in bar before the music starts, that will fix your issue.

thanks for all the replys, sorry for being late answering, will read now..

thanks alot