Hello All,
Allow me to introduce myself, I am Willy Confused and not just about Motifs, but i love research and and not afraid to learn.  I come here as a potential Motif XF owner.  I realize that everyone here is already an owner.  I figured this would be the best place for me to gather the intel I need before spending any of my hard earned money on new or used equipment.  I have been reading posts for months online, mostly on reviews of the Montage, Motif, ModX, MX, etc., as well as other brands such as Korg, Roland and so on.  One thing I noticed very quickly is that you Motif owners are by far the most passionate and loyal customers I have come across.  Hats off to all of you.  The dedication to the Motif line I witnessed in posts all over the internet from Motif owners inspired me to come here and ask some questions.  I am a bass guitarist, mediocre at best, self taught and play for my own enjoyment. I recently found myself with more time since I am virtually retired now, and began taking piano lessons. I love the instrument and am looking now to expand and purchase a keyboard/synth.  I am also interested in learning Cubase as well.  Analog synths are on my list as well.  Anyway, Please do not take what I am about to say in the wrong light and I mean NO disrespect whatsoever. So, here it goes in a nutshell.  Given the numerous disadvantages of purchasing a product that has been discontinued and where the product has limitations from a hardware/software perspective (relative to todays standards) why should I buy a Motif XF?
Thank you for your time and patience with my long post.
Be Well and Stay healthy.

Willy Confuzed - 01 April 2020 04:39 PM

Hello All,
Allow me to introduce myself, I am Willy Confused and not just about Motifs, but i love research and and not afraid to learn.  I come here as a potential Motif XF owner.

Welcome to the forum.

 

Willy Confuzed -

[...]
Given the numerous disadvantages of purchasing a product that has been discontinued and where the product has limitations from a hardware/software perspective (relative to todays standards) why should I buy a Motif XF?

In my opinion, you should only consider buying a Motif XF if it’s advantages outweigh the “disadvantages” and “limitations” you perceive. In general the XFs are reliable, but the risks of purchasing a discontinued (and perhaps more importantly, likely used) model are still worth considering. We can probably advise you about a few potential problems before you make a purchase. However, that may be putting the cart before the horse.

The “limitations” may be more important to you - what do you think those are? We’ll either be able to convince you that you’re being overly concerned, or agree with you. So, specifically what should we address?

Thank you 5PinDin for your welcome and timely response.  Your points are well taken.  The fact is that whether I buy a new Montage or ....or a used Motif XF8, both will take me quite a bit of time to explore and learn.  I guess one of my issues with regards to purchasing a used Motif, besides the risk of “as is” condition, would be difficulty in obtaining parts and upgrades.  I know I can get memory expansion board even though its not cheap. I have however found that the Yamaha FW16E Firewire Expansion board is no longer available for instance. I can’t even find one used.  How important is this hardware for someone who wants to runs Cubase? Whatever keyboard I purchase it will be for home use only so size and whether it runs with a PC or not aren’t a problem for me.

Yes, flash memory modules are still readily available, either Yamaha originals or those from Mutec. An FW16E interface is definitely harder to come by, although they do show up for sale on auction sites every so often. Of course, you might find an XF with an FW16E already installed.

Cubase doesn’t require an FW16E, it can communicate via MIDI with a USB connection to your computer. However, besides MIDI communication, the FW16E can do digital audio via 16 audio bus outputs and 3 stereo pairs of return audio. Without an FW16E, an external audio interface could be used, if desired.

Hits from this search might help in determining whether the FW16E would be a requirement for you:
http://www.google.com/search?q=fw16e+vs+external+interface+site:motifator.com

If you’re seriously considering an XF, we can get into what to be aware of when buying a used one. Let us know.

Thank you 5PinDin once again. I’m happy to hear that an external audio interface can accomplish what the FW16E does and perhaps more I would imagine.  I have found on 1 used XF with the FW16E and it is a 61 key, but anyway thats another issue as well. I’m thinking since my better half is not really on board with me doing anything, and also given the fact that mobility isn’t an issue for me, if I have to be one and done for several years I’ll need an 88 key. As far as what to be aware of when buying a used XF I certainly would be grateful to hear your advice.  I have found several 88s that seem to be in excellent shape and from reputable sellers, so that good. I’m kind of scared to ask this here, but I will anyway.  First, let me say, I love Yamaha products, from motorcycles, dirt bikes, bass guitars, etc.  Whatever I decide to buy, unless there is a really good reason to the contrary, it’s going to be a Yamaha keyboard. That said, do you think given my complete level of inexperience I am biting off more than I can chew when considering an XF, and if so, what keyboard from Yamaha would to recommend I consider?  My budget is around the 2.5K area max.  Thanks in advance.

Willy Confuzed - 02 April 2020 01:02 PM

Thank you 5PinDin once again. I’m happy to hear that an external audio interface can accomplish what the FW16E does and perhaps more I would imagine.

There are advantages and disadvantages to both the FW16E and an external interface. Have you looked at the hits from the Google search I previously linked to?

 

Willy Confuzed -

I have found on 1 used XF with the FW16E and it is a 61 key, but anyway thats another issue as well. I’m thinking since my better half is not really on board with me doing anything, and also given the fact that mobility isn’t an issue for me, if I have to be one and done for several years I’ll need an 88 key. As far as what to be aware of when buying a used XF I certainly would be grateful to hear your advice.  I have found several 88s that seem to be in excellent shape and from reputable sellers, so that good.

In my experience, there are primarily two things to pay attention to on a used XF. One is that all keys properly respond to key velocity - that is, with a touch-sensitive Voice, how hard you play a note should determine volume level. Key contact problems can cause there to be no sound or full level at any velocity.

Another problem can be leaky muting transistors. It’s not a common problem, but worth being aware of. Symptoms can be distortion or crosstalk between output channels. I won’t go into details here, since the topic has been discussed before. This search should bring up some relevant threads:
http://www.google.com/search?q=leaky+muting+transistors+site:motifator.com

 

Willy Confuzed -

I’m kind of scared to ask this here, but I will anyway.  First, let me say, I love Yamaha products, from motorcycles, dirt bikes, bass guitars, etc.  Whatever I decide to buy, unless there is a really good reason to the contrary, it’s going to be a Yamaha keyboard. That said, do you think given my complete level of inexperience I am biting off more than I can chew when considering an XF, and if so, what keyboard from Yamaha would to recommend I consider?  My budget is around the 2.5K area max.  Thanks in advance.

In my opinion, inexperience isn’t the issue as much as patience and perseverance. The XF can be a simple electronic piano, or a music production workstation. Motifator forums can help should you need assistance with the deeper end of things. There are also numerous support articles on the site, and the Motifator Shop and Keyfax have quite a few tutorial videos that can help initially and as you progress. (If you’re wondering, I don’t work for Keyfax/Motifator, so that’s just a suggestion based on having used the products myself.)

Hi 5PinDin, Thank you.  I read the posts from the links you provided and found them very helpful.  I agree that patience and perseverance are important and serve us quite well in life to the degree we employ them.  I am going to continue my research and pump the brakes on my buying impulse. You are a gentleman, a scholar sir, and I also remember reading somewhere, a “stalwart legend.” Be well and “I’ll be back.” Pax

Willy Confuzed - 04 April 2020 05:13 PM

Hi 5PinDin, Thank you.  I read the posts from the links you provided and found them very helpful.  I agree that patience and perseverance are important and serve us quite well in life to the degree we employ them.  I am going to continue my research and pump the brakes on my buying impulse. You are a gentleman, a scholar sir, and I also remember reading somewhere, a “stalwart legend.” Be well and “I’ll be back.” Pax

You’re welcome, and thanks for the kind words and well wishes. I hope you do find a keyboard fitting your needs, whether that might be a Motif or something else. Best wishes for good health at these trying times to you and other Motifator members.

Willy Confuzed - 01 April 2020 04:39 PM

Hello All,
Allow me to introduce myself, I am Willy Confused and not just about Motifs, but i love research and and not afraid to learn.  I come here as a potential Motif XF owner.  I realize that everyone here is already an owner.  I figured this would be the best place for me to gather the intel I need before spending any of my hard earned money on new or used equipment.  I have been reading posts for months online, mostly on reviews of the Montage, Motif, ModX, MX, etc., as well as other brands such as Korg, Roland and so on.  One thing I noticed very quickly is that you Motif owners are by far the most passionate and loyal customers I have come across.  Hats off to all of you.  The dedication to the Motif line I witnessed in posts all over the internet from Motif owners inspired me to come here and ask some questions.  I am a bass guitarist, mediocre at best, self taught and play for my own enjoyment. I recently found myself with more time since I am virtually retired now, and began taking piano lessons. I love the instrument and am looking now to expand and purchase a keyboard/synth.  I am also interested in learning Cubase as well.  Analog synths are on my list as well.  Anyway, Please do not take what I am about to say in the wrong light and I mean NO disrespect whatsoever. So, here it goes in a nutshell.  Given the numerous disadvantages of purchasing a product that has been discontinued and where the product has limitations from a hardware/software perspective (relative to todays standards) why should I buy a Motif XF?
Thank you for your time and patience with my long post.
Be Well and Stay healthy.

Discontiuned....  hmmm.....  Interesting… We don’t use that term to refer to other classic musical instruments.  For example there are many violinists who would feel privileged to play a Stradivarius, or pianists that might jump at an opportunity to play a piano that Beethoven actually played.

https://www.worldpianonews.com/historical/beethovens-piano-baden/

Many musicians refer to older musical instruments as classics and they are often prized and sought after.  I find it intriguing that often synthesizers are referred to as equipment and talked about as if they were computing devices.

But the fact is outside of the human voice, .... just about every other means of music production (the bassoon, oboe, guitar, violin, trumpet, pipe organ, etc) is a form of technology yet we don’t tend to refer to them as equipment or discontinued, or characterize them by the technology used to make them.

If I had in my possession a harpsichord owned by Mozart I don’t think anyone would refer to it as discontinued even though clearly the model of harpsichord hasn’t been made in hundreds of years.  But if I were to show a young person the internals of a harpsichord owned by Mozart the young person would clearly understand it as some kind of old mechanical device LOL. 

I know my post is a bit from left field, but I do find it fascinating how differently synthesizers, and other digital musical instruments are often talked about as devices, equipment,hardware, and software while other musical instruments are not characterized by the technology they are built on.

From my perspective my Motif and MOX 8 are fine musical instruments.  At some point they’ll be referred to as vintage musical instruments, or even antique musical instruments that are no longer made, but are passionately sought after.

As far as spending hard earned money on a musical instrument what considerations should any musician make?  Which oboe, guitar, bassoon, violin, sitar, karimba should a musician or would be musician buy?  Whether the original manufacturer of that instrument is still producing it or not is typically not even a consideration and why should it be?

@Willy Confused “No offense meant” But I find the Motif a fine musical instrument made in the very best tradition of musical instruments in its class.  From a sound synthesis and musical production point of view I find no limitations in the Motif, and I am as fond of my personal Motif and MOX 8 as a violinist might be of his/her violin.  The notion that the model has been discontinued by Yamaha just simply does not come into the consideration no more than the fact that the company that made my Wurlitzer piano no longer makes them, or the fact that the company that made my Wurlitzer is no longer in business. Who cares if its no longer made.  I own it!  My Wurlitzer is still one of my prized musical instruments.

I’m aware of no disadvantages of owning, playing, composing, or designing sounds, on my Motif even in the context of it being discontinued... I wouldn’t trade my Motif for any other keyboard ever made LOL

If you have the privilege or golden opportunity to purchase a Motif you should give it a great deal of consideration a great deal of consideration indeed.

Cheers

Hello lastmonk,
Thank you for your reply. First of all, I take no offence at all from your post. I am thankful for it. This is exactly the owners passion for the instrument I refer to in my original post and the number one reason why I joined this forum.  To hear from you. So, Thank you very much for taking the time out of your day to respond to me as 5PinDin has on a subject which I’m sure to you has been covered ad nausium already. I am so completely new to ALL of this I cannot begin to list in how many ways.  I am almost agonizing over this decision and don’t see how I could take it any more seriously but I am also very excited and fortunate to be able to consider such a purchase which is a “want” and not a “need”. I pray you and yours stay healthy and safe during this difficult time.  Rock on!