When you load 1 Bank Voice to a specified USR bank from an X3A file, you seem to get all the samples associated with that bank or maybe even all the samples in the file.  I suspect the latter because I end up with waveforms in the FL1 memory not used by any voices.  In order to free up this memory, you need to delete the unused waveforms. The increase to available free memory is confirmed at the completion of each delete.  I also optimized the FL1 memory following the deletes.  This took in excess of 1.5 hours on a 1GB board of flash memory.  I then loaded more voices using 1 Bank Voice and still ended up with some free memory.  All seemed to work fine, with new voices playing without incident. Then the bad news; when I repowered up the XF, I got an unrecognized flash memory error and was forced to reformat the FL1 Bank and start over.  That killed about 4 hours’ work.  I will not try optimize again.  Now the questions.

1. If you load specific individual voices from an X3A file, what waveforms are loaded along with that voice?  All waveforms in the X3A file or just the ones needed by the single voice being loaded ?

2. If you load 1 Bank Voice from an X3A file, what waveforms are loaded along with that bank ? All waveforms in the X3A file or just the ones needed for the 1 Bank Voice set of voices ?

3.  Does optimize flash memory provided the same function as defragging a hard disk drive ?  Does it actually work?

4.  Is there a better way to do what I am trying to do i.e. use up only the flash memory needed to support new voices ?

Jacob

JacobZ06 - 09 March 2019 10:02 PM

1. If you load specific individual voices from an X3A file, what waveforms are loaded along with that voice?  All waveforms in the X3A file or just the ones needed by the single voice being loaded ?

Just those needed by that particular Voice.

 

JacobZ06 -

2. If you load 1 Bank Voice from an X3A file, what waveforms are loaded along with that bank ? All waveforms in the X3A file or just the ones needed for the 1 Bank Voice set of voices ?

Just those needed by Voices in the Bank.

 

JacobZ06 -

3.  Does optimize flash memory provided the same function as defragging a hard disk drive ?  Does it actually work?

The concept is the same. How much good it does depends on the number and size of Waveforms that had been previously deleted. I’ve not had a problem using it.

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In order to verify my replies, I ran an experiment. I started with FL1 (an FL1024M) in my XF - empty, but formatted. I then loaded Bank 4 of “Inspiration in a Flash”, as Type “1 Bank Voice”. The result was Total size 1022M, Free size 897M, meaning 125MB was installed to the flash module, being less than 1/4 of the total size of Waveforms in that library. There were 39 Waveforms indicated, every one of which showing a “used by” Voice.

I deleted every fifth Waveform - 5/10/15/20/25/30/35 - and the Free size increased to 918M. Of course, some of the Voices no longer played correctly. I then ran “Optimize”. The result was still 918M free - there’s no way to readily determine if the memory usage is more contiguous after optimization. However, turning the XF off and back on did not result in any loss of flash module data.

-------------------

To address possible explanations of your experiences…

A) Which OS version is installed on your XF? Older versions of the firmware certainly had problems, although I have no knowledge of the things you’ve mentioned being exhibited by them. To determine the OS version:
Press and release the [UTILITY] button to get into Utility mode.
Then press [UTILITY], [ ^ ](Cursor Up) and [F1] buttons at the same time.
What Firmware Version is displayed (ignore the second decimal point and anything after it)? The most recent is version 1.50.

B) The Optimize function can take a very long time to complete, especially if the flash module is nearly full. Each Waveform after the first break in continuity has to be read and rewritten. If the process is somehow interrupted the data won’t be accessible any longer, and an error message will be displayed.

C) If Voices which used Waveforms from the flash module are overwritten, then naturally there will be no “used by” indication for those related Waveforms.

I’m not suggesting that “B” or “C” did necessarily occur. If you’re sure they didn’t, then perhaps “A” is an issue. I can only assure you that I haven’t had the problems with my own XF, running OS 1.50.

 

JacobZ06 -

4.  Is there a better way to do what I am trying to do i.e. use up only the flash memory needed to support new voices ?

You might want to investigate the John Melas software, and see if you find it worthwhile for your purposes.

Many thanks 5pinDIN.

I am running Version 1.5.  To my knowledge, no interruptions occurred during the Optimize.

But I will start over, this time being very selective as to voices loaded.  Also will check out the John Melas software.

Thanks again for your effort.

Jacob

You’re welcome.

Out of curiosity, which libraries and Banks gave you trouble? If I have them, I’m willing to see if I can duplicate the difficulties you ran into - perhaps there’s an anomaly of some kind.

Let’s see if I can remember this correctly.

Setup:

Flash: 1GB in FL1

OS Ver 1.5

10th Anniversary Load:

Did a load 1 Bank Voice from USR1 in OLSZAK.X3A to USR4 using FL.  New voices all behaved normally in USR4.  Took over half the FL1 memory.
Did an ALL type backup.

K-Sounds Signature Piano Load:

Tried to load all from KSSP_LRG.n2.X3A to USR2 using FL1.  Got an error regarding not enough room in flash.

Went through the process of deleting unused waveforms in FL1.

Ran an optimize on FL1.  Took over 90 minutes.

Retried the load all from KSSP_LRG.n2.X3A to USR2 using FL1.  New voices all behaved normally in USR2.  Still about 150MB left in FL1.
Did an ALL type backup.

Rebooting:

Powered off XF.
Powerer on XF.  Got an “unrecognized flash in FL1.  Please Reformat That” type of error.

Reformatted FL1.
Loaded All from post Ver 1.5 backup X3A file.

Re-ran the K-Sounds Signature Piano Load:

All seemed normal.  About 567MB free in FL1.

Reboot is normal.  I write the previous problem off to a glitch.

Jacob

UPDATE

Loaded individual preferred voices from 10th Anniversary file OLSZAK.X3A.  Mostly acoustic piano and DX7 stuff.

Also loaded individual songs from the same file

All worked fine without issue this time, including reboot.  Free flash on FL1 is about 500MB.  Clearly, you are better to cherry pick preferred voices from these aftermarket X3A files.

Jacob

JacobZ06 - 10 March 2019 03:08 PM

Let’s see if I can remember this correctly.

Setup:

Flash: 1GB in FL1

OS Ver 1.5

10th Anniversary Load:

Did a load 1 Bank Voice from USR1 in OLSZAK.X3A to USR4 using FL.  New voices all behaved normally in USR4.  Took over half the FL1 memory.
Did an ALL type backup.

I did a similar loading. Due to the large size of the Waveforms for the Mark 1 and Mark 5 Voices, that Bank is about 583MB. Checking the List, no Waveforms had “used by” empty.

 

JacobZ06 -

K-Sounds Signature Piano Load:

Tried to load all from KSSP_LRG.n2.X3A to USR2 using FL1.  Got an error regarding not enough room in flash.

I don’t have that particular K-sounds library. However, checking online seems to indicate it has about 456MB in Waveforms. That plus the OLSZAK ones total about 1039MB, so the error message wouldn’t be surprising.

 

JacobZ06 -

Went through the process of deleting unused waveforms in FL1.

Ran an optimize on FL1.  Took over 90 minutes.

Retried the load all from KSSP_LRG.n2.X3A to USR2 using FL1.  New voices all behaved normally in USR2.  Still about 150MB left in FL1.
Did an ALL type backup.

I’m confused over loading “all” of KSSP_LRG.n2.X3A to USR2. A single Bank from that file could be loaded into a specific one on the XF, but loading “all” would overwrite the OLSZAK Voices already in USR4. If that was done, then checking the Waveform List would indicate Waveforms for the OLSZAK Voices to have no “used by” Voices.

If your intent is to have various Banks loaded simultaneously, then Type “1 Bank Voice” has to be used for each one loaded.

 

JacobZ06 -

Rebooting:

Powered off XF.
Powerer on XF.  Got an “unrecognized flash in FL1.  Please Reformat That” type of error.

Reformatted FL1.
Loaded All from post Ver 1.5 backup X3A file.

Re-ran the K-Sounds Signature Piano Load:

All seemed normal.  About 567MB free in FL1.

Reboot is normal.  I write the previous problem off to a glitch.

Jacob

I’m not sure what the “glitch” might have been. However, 1022MB minus 567MB = 455MB, which is about the size of the large K-sounds piano by itself. It would seem none of the OLSZAK Waveforms are loaded. Am I missing something?

By the way, in my opinion the Mark 1 and 5 Voices in the OLSZAK file don’t merit the space their samples take up on a flash module. If you feel the same, deleting 1_low 001.wav, 2_low-mid 001.wav, 3_high-mid 001.wav, 4_high 001.wav, and 5_release 001 .wav can open up a lot of room for other Waveforms.

I hope you succeed at getting everything you want loaded.

EDIT: Just saw your UPDATE. I’m glad you achieved what you wanted. It appears that you decided to forgo the Mark1/5 Voices.  :-)

As to cherry-picking Voices from libraries, unfortunately they still all have to be loaded first in order to be auditioned. When the Voices are based on Waveforms in the files, it takes some loading and deleting from flash, one way or another.

By the way, in my opinion the Mark 1 and 5 Voices in the OLSZAK file don’t merit the space their samples take up on a flash module. If you feel the same, deleting 1_low 001.wav, 2_low-mid 001.wav, 3_high-mid 001.wav, 4_high 001.wav, and 5_release 001 .wav can open up a lot of room for other Waveforms.

Complete agreement. It’s simply not worth it.

It would seem none of the OLSZAK Waveforms are loaded. Am I missing something?

Correct.  I skipped that file to start with.  Cherry picked it later.

I’m fairly certain the “glitch” was a self-inflicted wound somewhere along the way. No one ever said the Motif XF involved a short learning curve.

Thanks again for your help.

JacobZ06 - 10 March 2019 07:43 PM

[...] No one ever said the Motif XF involved a short learning curve.

Certainly not if they were being truthful, but in my opinion the effort is worthwhile.

 

JacobZ06 -

Thanks again for your help.

No problem - I hope you have a more enjoyable experience with your XF now.

For future convenience I have ordered another flash memory board for FL2, available here for a reasonable price:

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/302758309394

With an additional 1024M, I can experiment with new voice libraries without compromising the contents of FL1.

Jacob