Over the past couple of years I’ve really gotten into modular synthesizers.  I create some amazing sounds with the modular and would like to sample some of those sounds into my Motif XF6. 

While I’ve done sampling with the Motif I haven’t gone beyond basic one-shot sampling into USR Drum kits and I’m running into a few issues I was wondering if anyone could please help with;

Some of the sounds I create have a specific attack sound (let say a sweeping filter) then a sustain sound and then a release sound (perhaps another filter sweep) on release of the key.  The key fact here (pardon the pun) is that the sound sustains as long as I hold the key down.

If I sample the sound for a few seconds I only get those few seconds while I’m holding the key down on the Motif.  If I edit the sample and add a Loop Point I’m getting a small “click” when the loop restarts.  I also have to adjust the End Point away from the cool filter sweep release in order to minimize that click sound.

If I record a very long version of the sample as a one-shot I don’t get the cool release sound unless I play the sample to the end.

I was wondering what the process was for sampling sounds like these.  I can’t find any documentation pertaining to quite this process.

RichS - 20 May 2017 05:23 PM

[...] If I edit the sample and add a Loop Point I’m getting a small “click” when the loop restarts.

See http://www.motifator.com/index.php/forum/viewthread/469974/

http://www.audacityteam.org/

RichS -

I also have to adjust the End Point away from the cool filter sweep release in order to minimize that click sound.

If I record a very long version of the sample as a one-shot I don’t get the cool release sound unless I play the sample to the end.

You might be able to start with a sample crossfade looped before the original release, and replicate the modular’s release (to whatever degree possible) using XF Parameters.

Thanks 5pinDIN!  It looks like this is going to be pretty tricky but I’ll give it a try.  I appreciate your help.

RichS - 21 May 2017 08:59 AM

Thanks 5pinDIN!

You’re welcome.

 

RichS -

It looks like this is going to be pretty tricky but I’ll give it a try.  I appreciate your help.

There’s a possible alternative. You could use a sample (up to the release) that was crossfade looped, for one Element of a Voice. Then create another sample, this time of the release portion, and use that in another Element, with XA Control set to “key off sound”. What could be tricky about that is to have a smooth transition between the sounds of the two Elements.

I’ve attached an “All Voice” file with an example. The file is initialized except for the USER1 A01 Voice, “KeyOffDemo-5pinDIN”. The first two Elements make up a synth sound. Element 3 is a flute that plays when a key is released, due to XA Control being set to “key off sound”. The single Voice can be loaded to any User Voice location by using Type “voice”.

KeyOffDemo-5pinDIN.n3.X3V.zip  (File Size: 5KB - Downloads: 118)

It might help the transition if the Release Time for Element 1 is long enough to blend with the sound from the key-off Element.

good topic, rich. stick around. keep us updated. ...
looking forward to checking out the links and the links. I think I’ve missed those. thanks 5pin.

I agree about prepping samples in software. I tried it on the XF first just to see what that would be like. ... I haven’t gotten to a good audio editor yet, but when prepping stuff in Melas Tools I could see software prep was going to be easier. I think it’s good to know it can be done on the XF, and an ASCII keyboard helps a lot here. (I could see networking to computer will be an additional workflow asset.)

Hats off on key-off issues.

Thanks guys!  I’m working on doing the samples in my DAW (Reaper).  It’s not very easy though and I haven’t had great success yet.  I also haven’t given it a super-ton of time.

I will continue though and report back my findings.

I too find creating the samples in my DAW is much better.  When I created the sample the other day it was through the Motif Input jacks.  The other pile of on-shot samples I have in my USR Drum Kit were created on my Mac first.

For those interested I’ve attached a pic of my modular.  It consists of 2 parts SWAN (Synthesizer With A Name) and Phoenix.  Phoenix is the smaller portable system.

Stay tuned for more sampling status…

Click thumbnail to see full-size image

I’ve done a bit of this sort of thing and found there are two basic approaches:

1. Don’t bother looping. If you try to sutain a note too long, the sound will release as it did when recording it. The actual release you program into the voice will only take effect if you don’t sustain the full length. This has a major drawback: recording very long samples to get a reasonable amount of sustain. It is however, quite simple to do. A well known example of this was the Mellotron, the tapes played for about 7 seconds and then stopped whether you continued to hold the keys down or not, because the tapes were not loops.

2. Get a good sample editor to create the loops. The internal sampling engine of all Motifs lacks crossfading which has upset many users over the years. The John Melas Waveform Editor software is a good tool to try. The problem of looping is finding spots where the loop is not too obvious. The more use of modulation in the original sound, the harder it is to loop it. The advantage of looping is you can use shorter samples, especially for more static sounds. The disadvantage is the time it takes to get proper loop points.  There are some software tools that claim to simplify the process, both recording the samples and setting the loop points for you although I have no idea how well they really work...they are not cheap.

Samplit

Sample Robot

RichS - 20 May 2017 05:23 PM

Over the past couple of years I’ve really gotten into modular synthesizers.  I create some amazing sounds with the modular and would like to sample some of those sounds into my Motif XF6. 

A couple years ago I was deciding between a DIY Eurorack modular system and a Prophet 12.  In the end I went with the P12 for various reasons...mostly cost and convenience.  I concluded that building a 12 voice polyphonic modular with 4 oscillators, 4 LFO’s, 4 ADSR’s, etc...would have cost me a small fortune :-)

I think “what” you’re doing is cool, but the “why” has me very curious.
Why would you sample from an instrument that has virually 100’s of real time tweakable knobs and parameters into a Motif that has a relatively significantly limited ability to alter the patch?  Is it to get 128 note polyphony for your modular patches?

Thanks for the replies guys!

@Meatballfulton - I hear what you’re saying about looping and finding acceptable loop points.  It is difficult and can’t work for every sound I produce on my modular. As Mutiny in Jonestown mentioned the modular has a huge number of tweakable parameters which are often changed in real-time either manually or through control voltages.

The sounds I’m trying to capture are often deep, resonant droning sounds which lend themselves to looonnnnnng sustain periods.  While I know I’ll never capture the true sound created it’s still cool to have a near duplicate.

I have to admit that even a sampled clip from the modular doesn’t hold a candle to the original when played side by side.  Having 8 oscillators running through various filters and shapers produces something very organic (IMHO).  I avoid digital modules like the plague and a digital reproduction is like comparing CDs to vinyl.

Trouble is that, to continue the analogy, it’s a lot easier to play CDs in your car than vinyl.  My modular is huge and stays put.  I’d like to be able to reproduce some of those sounds in pieces I may play live or with other musicians away from my studio..

Thanks for suggesting John Melas’ Waveform Editor.  I have that package and didn’t think to try it out for this project.

@MIJ - I guess the sampling into the Motif is an evolutionary step.  When I produce a sound with the modular I almost always sample it with my DAW.  I often make notes on the samples just as a reference and as a learning tool.  Many patches I create are not done in the process of writing a song but in the process of patching for the sake of patching.  Just a way to see what kind of sounds I can create.  I like to file those sounds away both physically (if storing the sound in digital format can be called physically) and mentally.

Later when writing a piece of music I think “hey, I made a really cool sound that would be a great in this piece”.  It might be a bass drone or a lead.  It might be a sequence or just a sound effect.  Being able to go back to it is very handy.  While using the sample in a DAW is cool being able to fire it up on the Motif and play with it would be more spontaneous.  In fact, polyphony of my sounds is actually the least of my concerns and I often set my Motif patches to Mono when I save them.

Finally, getting the patches into the Motif is an exercise in technology and I love learning how to do new and different things with my gear.  Particularly if it’s new and out-there.

Melas Waveform Editor is wonderful. I learned about it on this forum- obviously.—I like to hear about your process. I definitely agree that sampling the alive synth seems to not make sense from one perspective, but makes great sense from another. Not a ‘one *or* the other’, but a ‘one *and* the other’.

In both a weird and historical way, the sample is like a less alive “preset” that can’t be edited in the synthesis realm, but can be manipulated in a different sampling world. And there is value there. Having awareness of the pros and cons of each helps.

I have taken a break from learning about sampling to focus on other things. One day, I hope to return. I wonder if I’d ever be efficient with it.

RichS - 24 May 2017 11:07 PM

@MIJ - I guess the sampling into the Motif is an evolutionary step.  When I produce a sound with the modular I almost always sample it with my DAW.  I often make notes on the samples just as a reference and as a learning tool.  Many patches I create are not done in the process of writing a song but in the process of patching for the sake of patching.  Just a way to see what kind of sounds I can create.  I like to file those sounds away both physically (if storing the sound in digital format can be called physically) and mentally.

Later when writing a piece of music I think “hey, I made a really cool sound that would be a great in this piece”.  It might be a bass drone or a lead.  It might be a sequence or just a sound effect.  Being able to go back to it is very handy.  While using the sample in a DAW is cool being able to fire it up on the Motif and play with it would be more spontaneous.  In fact, polyphony of my sounds is actually the least of my concerns and I often set my Motif patches to Mono when I save them.

Finally, getting the patches into the Motif is an exercise in technology and I love learning how to do new and different things with my gear.  Particularly if it’s new and out-there.

Very clever!  So in a sense you’re using your DAW & the Motif as an “audio patch chart” for your sounds. In other words, rather than using a piece of paper representing all your modules and hand drawing the patch cords connections and parameter values (as I do for my Korg MS-20), by sampling the sounds into the Motif you’ve “saved” the sound you created for future use without having to “repatch” the modular :-)

And BTW, your modular is a beauty and looks like a ton of fun!

Best of luck with your project!