Greetings forum members !  I have added a delay effect to Tenor Dynamic AF1 voice, and saved it to a user preset voice.  I am trying to add it to a Part in a PERFORMANCE but the delay effect will not transfer even though I have turned Parameter With Voice to ON.  I have even Initialized the part then switched on Parameter with Voice then selected my saved voice but still no Delay.  Is there anything else that needs to be set.  Thanks for any help or suggestions.

Insertion Effects can be turned on/off on a per-Part basis. (See Ins Effect Sw on page 89 of the S90 XS Reference Manual.) When the Part has been initialized, the default setting for Ins Effect Sw should be ”on”, but you might want to verify that anyway.

Otherwise, based on what you posted the effect should be being applied to the Voice in the Part. I realize that you said you had selected the “saved voice” - I presume by that you mean the stored, edited version - but I suggest that you make sure the Performance Part is indeed pointing to the User location, and not to the Preset (PRE5/A13).

If the above doesn’t help, you could post an “All"/X2A file (zipped) - I could load that and determine what’s happening.

Hey 5pin thanks for the response.  I checked the things you mentioned And everything is turned ON . I made sure that I was pointing to the correct edited and saved preset.  Still no delay effect.

Here’s what I tried .  I found another Sax voice that already had a delay programmed in it and inserted it into the Part.  And it worked.  The delay was inserted into the Performance.  Problem is this is Not the Voice that I want.

So I tried this.  I found the correct Sax Voice that I want already in a User Preset.  I edited that Voice adding Delay.  Saved it in its original user Preset, then I put it in the Part of my Performance and the Delay effect did NOT carry over.  I’m stumped !!

It should be possible to edit the Insert Effect of a Voice and have it applied in a Part of a Performance, without much effort.

Correct nomenclature is important so that we can understand each other. I’m not sure if there’s confusion over the terms “Preset” and “User”, or if there’s a misunderstanding of operation, or something else.

Please forgive me if some of this is obvious, but…
There’s no such thing as a “User Preset”. There are nine Normal Voice Preset banks - PRE1~PRE8 plus GM. There are three User Voice banks.

An edited Voice can’t be stored to a Preset location. Voices in Preset bank locations are permanent - they can’t be changed. An edited Preset Voice can only be stored to a User Voice location.

When you store an edited version of a Voice, I suggest renaming it in some way so that the edited version is easily recognized. When you STORE an edited Voice, be sure to note which User Voice location you’re storing the Voice to. When you create a Performance, that location is where the Part should point.

The above should ensure that the Voice with the added delay effect is the one used by your Performance. If you still aren’t successful, please attach a zipped “All” file that includes your edited sax Voice and your Performance, and I’ll take a look at it.

My apologies, I did use the wrong terminology which made it confusing.  I meant User Voice not User Preset.  My last paragraph of previous post should have read :

So I tried this.  I found the correct Sax Voice that I want to use already in a User Voice location. I edited that Voice adding Delay.  Saved it in its original User Voice location and then I put it in the Part of my Performance and the Delay effect did NOT carry over.  I’m stumped !!

I also tried using the same edited User Voice in a new Initialized Performance and the delay did NOT carry over.  I made sure the Parameter with Voice and the INS Effect was set to ON.  I’ve also tried everything you have suggested. 

Yes I would think this should be a fairly easy thing to do.  There must be something I’m missing. I’ll keep trying to get it to work.  But I may need more help. I’ll let you know either way.  Many thanks !

pianoman58 - 16 February 2018 10:26 PM

My apologies, I did use the wrong terminology which made it confusing.  I meant User Voice not User Preset.

No apologies needed. It’s just easier when we use terms the same way.

 

pianoman58 -

My last paragraph of previous post should have read :

So I tried this.  I found the correct Sax Voice that I want to use already in a User Voice location. I edited that Voice adding Delay.  Saved it in its original User Voice location and then I put it in the Part of my Performance and the Delay effect did NOT carry over.  I’m stumped !!

I also tried using the same edited User Voice in a new Initialized Performance and the delay did NOT carry over.  I made sure the Parameter with Voice and the INS Effect was set to ON.  I’ve also tried everything you have suggested.

OK, I think the cause of the problem has been revealed.

The Voice where the delay “carried over” to the Performance apparently had the delay in an Insert Effect. However, I suspect that in the edited Voice you’ve applied the delay as a type of Chorus, which is a System Effect. Insert Effects are brought along to a Part, but System effects aren’t.

This support article…
http://www.motifator.com/index.php/support/view/insertion_effects_differ_from_the_system_effects
...explains the differences. Although written concerning the Motif XS, it mostly applies to the S90XS.

If you like the delay found with the Voice you didn’t want to use, take a look at its Insert Effects and try applying them to the Voice you like.

 

pianoman58 -

Yes I would think this should be a fairly easy thing to do.  There must be something I’m missing. I’ll keep trying to get it to work.  But I may need more help. I’ll let you know either way.  Many thanks !

You’re welcome. Hopefully using the appropriate Insert Effects should work.

You could, of course, apply the delay to the Performance by using the Chorus System Effect, but that would affect all of the Parts, not just the single sax Part.

I knew if I gave you enough information you would figure it out.  I won’t be able to get back to my board for a couple of hours but I do remember choosing a Delay in the Chorus so I must have added SYSTEM EFFECT. Instead of INSERT EFFECT as you say.

Good article on the difference of the two types of effects. Up til now I have not used Insert Effects much because I honestly did not understand how to apply them. So this has been very enlightening for me and probably others too.  I get it now. SYSTEM EFFECT is the overall acoustics of the room, like Reverb, and are applied to all Parts of a Performance.  INSERT EFFECTS is an individual instrument inserted thru it’s own effect, such as guitar running thru a Wah-Wah pedal. I know that you and others have been over this a hundred times....so your patience and diligence are greatly appreciated !

Ok I’m understanding the concept but still having trouble determining whether I am adding SYSTEM effect or INSERT effect.  I have taken the desired PRESET VOICE and stored it in a USER VOICE location and renamed it.  Then I go to EDIT- EFFECT-INS A (Chorus) or INS B (Reverb) or both.  Is this not INSERT EFFECTS ?  This is the only choice of effects I am finding.

pianoman58 - 17 February 2018 03:33 PM

Ok I’m understanding the concept but still having trouble determining whether I am adding SYSTEM effect or INSERT effect.  I have taken the desired PRESET VOICE and stored it in a USER VOICE location and renamed it.  Then I go to EDIT- EFFECT-INS A (Chorus) or INS B (Reverb) or both.  Is this not INSERT EFFECTS ?  This is the only choice of effects I am finding.

Not quite.

Ins A is Insert A, it is not Chorus.
Ins B is Insert B, it is not Reverb.
They are four separate Effects.

Effects is covered beginning on page 24 of the S90XS Owner’s Manual. I presume that the confusion is due to what you see in the display, as shown for step 4 on page 25. To make settings for Ins A or Ins B, they have to be highlighted on the display, and then [ENTER] has to be pressed, etc. See step 5 and onward.

The Chorus and Reverb settings are made similarly, but doing that at the Voice level doesn’t carry to the Performance. If you want to adjust those System Effects for a Performance, use Performance Common Edit as covered on page 77 of the S90XS Reference Manual.

You might find the Effect Structure information on pages 14-15 of the Reference Manual helpful in understanding the relationship.

Ok I see now. I didn’t realize I was looking at 4 different effects, 2 INSERTION (A & B) and 2 SYSTEM (Chorus & Reverb) Thank you for explaining this whole process to me in such easily understood terms. 

I use a different STORED PERFORMANCE for each song i play. And I always tweak the Voices to my liking. I use a lot of layers turning them on and off as needed in PERFORMANCE Mode and also using a lot of splits on the keyboard and I get many compliments for the sounds that come out of the S90xs. But this has only been possible because of you and others who have helped me.  As I said before, I haven’t done much with the EFFECTS because I didn’t really understand them.  But now you have opened up a whole new world.

THANK YOU !!

You’re welcome! I’m glad that you’ll have the opportunity to use more of the S90XS features. Hopefully your audience will be even more complimentary of your playing.