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Viewing topic "Keybed XF6 vs. XF7"

     
Posted on: October 11, 2019 @ 01:16 PM
Michiel D
Total Posts:  175
Joined  11-16-2009
status: Pro

Hi there, I want to get my hands on a Motif XF but am not shure whether to go for the 6 or the 7.
The XF has a shortened/ light keybed (not the 8 of course). Is the keybed in the 6 and 7 exactly the same or has the keybed in the XF7 a better quality than the one in the XF6?
Kind regards, Michael

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Posted on: October 11, 2019 @ 06:02 PM
5pinDIN
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Both the XF6 and XF7 use the FSX keybed - the only difference is the number of keys. The same keybed was also used in the XS6/7, as well as in the so-called successor to the Motif XF.

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Posted on: October 11, 2019 @ 10:49 PM
Michiel D
Total Posts:  175
Joined  11-16-2009
status: Pro

Thanks, I really liked the keybed of the XS so I expected the keybed of the FX to be of less quality - reading the reviews on the web i.e. Soundonsound. Only the white keys are sporter compared to the XS?

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Posted on: October 12, 2019 @ 06:11 AM
dsetto
Total Posts:  409
Joined  01-24-2014
status: Enthusiast

http://www.motifator.com/index.php/forum/viewthread/456524/

As 5pinDIN stated, the FSX (“synth”) action is same on Motif XF and XS. I trust the link above where there’s assertion that the FSX action was introduced with the Motif XS 6 and 7.

I was also confused by the Sound On Sound review’s use of “shortened” key. My interpretation is that he intended to express either “narrow” (width) or “shorter” (key travel). By key travel, I mean from rest to bottom of keybed.

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Posted on: October 12, 2019 @ 09:46 AM
5pinDIN
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Michiel D - 11 October 2019 10:49 PM

Thanks, I really liked the keybed of the XS so I expected the keybed of the FX to be of less quality - reading the reviews on the web i.e. Soundonsound. Only the white keys are sporter compared to the XS?

I’ve just read the Sound On Sound XF7 review, so that I’m now aware of the author’s “shortened keys” comment.

Here’s what I know:

1) The visible part of white keys on typical modern pianos is about 150mm in length. The Yamaha keys are about 140mm.

2) Modern pianos have an octave span of about 165mm. Yamaha’s synth-action keyboards have a 160mm span.

3) I own both an XS6 and an XF6. The key feel is the same to me. The key length, width, and travel ("dip") is the same on both.

4) I have the XS and XF service manuals. The keyboard part numbers are the same, including those for the individual keys.

5) I also own a Korg T3, which uses the Yamaha FS action and is well respected by many users. While the FSX action doesn’t feel exactly identical to the FS, it comes very close - Yamaha removed the lead but did a good job of keeping the feel of the FS.

If you like the key feel of the XS, you’ll probably have no complaints about the XF’s action.

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Posted on: October 12, 2019 @ 09:57 AM
5pinDIN
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dsetto - 12 October 2019 06:11 AM

http://www.motifator.com/index.php/forum/viewthread/456524/

As 5pinDIN stated, the FSX (“synth”) action is same on Motif XF and XS. I trust the link above where there’s assertion that the FSX action was introduced with the Motif XS 6 and 7.

Thanks for posting that link.

 

dsetto -

I was also confused by the Sound On Sound review’s use of “shortened” key. My interpretation is that he intended to express either “narrow” (width) or “shorter” (key travel). By key travel, I mean from rest to bottom of keybed.

I found the author’s comments about the key size and feel ("feather‑light") to be strangely harsh. The XF7 is a synth, not a piano, and if one wants piano-like action, an XF8 should satisfy that.

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Posted on: October 12, 2019 @ 10:50 AM
dsetto
Total Posts:  409
Joined  01-24-2014
status: Enthusiast

One upside of some of the FSX idiosyncrasies is its smoothness. There’s a transparency of action.

When I became aware of some its subtle key differences, I questioned it for a while. I’m long past that, and enjoy it for what it is, and as part of its greater whole.

Today, I was enjoying sequencing on it. And I enjoyed banging on the stop, play, and record buttons. Those also have a good feel.

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Posted on: October 12, 2019 @ 10:54 AM
dsetto
Total Posts:  409
Joined  01-24-2014
status: Enthusiast

It’s my guess that the FSX is optimized to be a slanted, upper tier of a dual tier set up. Many of the norm deviations are assets there.

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Posted on: October 14, 2019 @ 01:06 PM
Michiel D
Total Posts:  175
Joined  11-16-2009
status: Pro

Today I experienced the FX keyboard and keybed. As a former piano player I really loved the keybed in the DX7 (one of the best ever made :  ). The keybed in the Motif ES isn’t as good as the DX7 but really good too. With the XS I experienced the keyboard felt a little ‘cheaper’, more plastic like. Through the keybed of the XF should be the same, the keybed feels (again) more plastic/ lighter than the keybed of the former model. Maybe the keys are made of a lighter kind op plastic of is the spring beneath the key plastic instead of a metal spring (don’t know what’s under the key in the XS, my good old SY77 has metal plates for a good keyboard action). Shure the keyboard maken ‘smooth playing’ very easy, but I now understand the review of sound on sound; the ‘feel’ is a bit ‘cheaper/ plastic’ than the XS. The onder the better ... ?
Not complaining too much, the possibilities of the XF are endless, flashboard memory is great, lost of knobs, et cetera.
It’s just like a good keybed isn’t that important anymore ..

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Posted on: October 14, 2019 @ 05:37 PM
5pinDIN
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Michiel D - 14 October 2019 01:06 PM

Today I experienced the FX keyboard and keybed. As a former piano player I really loved the keybed in the DX7 (one of the best ever made :  ). The keybed in the Motif ES isn’t as good as the DX7 but really good too. With the XS I experienced the keyboard felt a little ‘cheaper’, more plastic like.

The DX7 used the FS action. The XS has the FSX. See my #5 comment
above.

 

Michiel D -

Through the keybed of the XF should be the same, the keybed feels (again) more plastic/ lighter than the keybed of the former model. Maybe the keys are made of a lighter kind op plastic of is the spring beneath the key plastic instead of a metal spring (don’t know what’s under the key in the XS, my good old SY77 has metal plates for a good keyboard action).

See my #4 comment above. Do you think Yamaha produced the XF Service Manual with intentionally misleading parts information?

The key spring in the FSX is a metal leaf type. This is from personal knowledge - I’ve worked on both XS and XF keyboards.

You can choose to believe me (and Yamaha) or not.

 

Michiel D -

Shure the keyboard maken ‘smooth playing’ very easy, but I now understand the review of sound on sound; the ‘feel’ is a bit ‘cheaper/ plastic’ than the XS. The onder the better ... ?

I can directly compare the feel of the keys on my XS6 and XF6 - they feel the same. See my #3 comment above.

But here’s the thing…
The comparison should be done with the power off. That way you’re comparing the mechanical aspects, not the way a Voice responds due to settings such as Velocity Curve, which can significantly affect how the feel is perceived.

In addition, one’s memory of physical response is short-lived - a valid comparison requires being able to rapidly go back and forth between the models.

Outcomes are often influenced by expectations - that’s why double-blind testing is done.

 

Michiel D -

Not complaining too much, the possibilities of the XF are endless, flashboard memory is great, lost of knobs, et cetera.
It’s just like a good keybed isn’t that important anymore ..

The FSX found in the XF6 and XF7 apparently satisfies many users, but nothing will satisfy everyone.

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Posted on: October 15, 2019 @ 09:30 AM
Michiel D
Total Posts:  175
Joined  11-16-2009
status: Pro

Thanks for your replies, mr5pinDin and others. I do not question Yamaha service manuals it’s just that I experience the keybeds having a different ‘feel’ and was wondering if this is feeling could be explained by building quality aspects. Maybe the slightly shortened keys give a ‘fase response’.

My final note is not based on just Yamaha keybeds but with most of the brands out there. For me being used to a classical piano the feel of the keybed is important and I feel ‘spoiled’ with keybeds from older Yamaha boards as the DX7 and - now still in my collectioneur - the SY77 and (in terms of the keybed) even slightly better SY85(!). Synths like the Ghaia sh01, Miniak/micron, BassStation2, DSI, synths that have their qualities but mostly the feel of the keybed made me sell them. The XS/XF keybed is somehwhere in between. Of course on ‘the good side’ based on the total package :  )

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Posted on: October 15, 2019 @ 04:59 PM
dsetto
Total Posts:  409
Joined  01-24-2014
status: Enthusiast

On action perception, I once read the good point of considering how excessively the action has been used. This could apply to a store’s floor model, for example.

On the shortened keys comment, I don’t interpret it as a difference of XS vs XF, but rather on FSX, and perhaps on premium Yamaha synth action for quite some time.

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Posted on: October 15, 2019 @ 06:08 PM
5pinDIN
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dsetto - 15 October 2019 04:59 PM

[...]
On the shortened keys comment, I don’t interpret it as a difference of XS vs XF, but rather on FSX, and perhaps on premium Yamaha synth action for quite some time.

That’s correct - the “shortened” keys not only exist on both XS and XF (since they share the FSX action), but the predecessor FS action (used on many Yamaha and Korg keyboards for years) has keys with the identical length.

My suggestion to anyone who finds the FSX action not completely to their liking…
Try changing the Utility mode Velocity Curve setting.

Of course, if the desire is for an XF keyboard that feels like a piano, the 88-key model (XF8) comes reasonably close.

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