Maybe, I am missing something or I am just stupid (please, help me) but where is the advantage of XF flash memory (the others are known and clear).With XS, all new samples and sounds are stored on external storage device. That’s true, I have to wait some time on startup to load all these samples but when they are loaded I can do my gig , recordings or whatever. Yes, power cut can be the problem but to buy UPS is not if you already bought such an instrument. But with XF problem can be bigger. SDRAM is only 128mb and if you want to load more than this you have to store it to flash where loading time is much longer. And… Those sounds stored in flash most probably in the begining will not be the final solution, which means you have to load and unload them several times until you are satisfied and it will take a time for sure. And what about loading a libraries bigger than 128mb. To load them partially and store in flash (in slow process) or buy expensive loaded flash and close you expansion possibilities???
As a final solution XF is excellent but only with more RAM to work with.

I don’t see either what is the big deal with this added flash memory.
More convenient yes but nothing ground breaking, I can do all things I need to do without it. 128 MB of ram you need to expand right away anyway because it’s not enough so…

The advantage is for people who can’t understand why the samples are gone on power off.

It’s really a great new thing, but cutting the RAM down to 128 this is horrible.

The Flash is made for people who will buy Voice Libraries, not for people who will make voice libraries.

Do you image what pain will be to make a 1GB piano Library for the XF on the XF?
But 1GB for XF made on XS is a whole different story.

That’s why it’s 100% compatible so that Voice Designers can make the library on XS and sell it for the XF ,so that people can store it permanently in the flash.

That’s just the way I see it.

I really want to hear what Easy Sounds, Playkeyz, K-Sounds and DCP Productions think about that. (sorry if I’ve missed someone here)

Correct,

I think that big companies desperately needs new technologies (or ideas) which they don’t have it at the moment, and they are cutting existing features from instruments and offering us a same things again. Todays workstations are crowded with too many features and possibilities, which most of the users will never use and at the same time todays average user needs gadgets, not workstations, actually bunch of small miracles which will make instant music for their personal needs. That’s why we have performance mode full of sterile drum patterns (instead of useful orchestral splits and layers) filled with arpeggios and to use them you need just basic piano chords knowledge. Who cares about RAM.

radore - 19 August 2010 07:14 PM

It’s really a great new thing, but cutting the RAM down to 128 this is horrible.

I don’t think so you got that right, I thought the RAM is not cut down. It’s just added as a bonus on board, You can still add 1GB or ram as on XS which comes with 0 ram on board. If the is not the case and XF ram cannot be expanded XF is not for me and it would be really horrible idea. 

Is yamaha doing same thing as roland to sell additional parts?
They could do the same with flash memory stick as with that memory flash card…

does a new motif FX supports 2 gb of Flash mamory with 2 GB of Ram memory? or am I wrong?

I don’t think so you got that right, I thought the RAM is not cut down. It’s just added as a bonus on board, You can still add 1GB or ram as on XS which comes with 0 ram on board. If the is not the case and XF ram cannot be expanded XF is not for me and it would be really horrible idea. 

Is yamaha doing same thing as roland to sell additional parts?
They could do the same with flash memory stick as with that memory flash card…

Sorry you’re right - it’s added, not cut, I meant that the 128MB is the maximum in the XF compared to 1GB or 2GB(recently) of RAM for the XS.

does a new motif FX supports 2 gb of Flash mamory with 2 GB of Ram memory? or am I wrong?

2GB of FLASH only, the max RAM is already installed and it’s 128MB (not expandable)

Flash ROM expansion instead of DIMM.

So, delirium, chilly - that’s no DIMM expansion, guys, sorry.

Correct,

I think that big companies desperately needs new technologies (or ideas) which they don’t have it at the moment, and they are cutting existing features from instruments and offering us a same things again. Todays workstations are crowded with too many features and possibilities, which most of the users will never use and at the same time todays average user needs gadgets, not workstations, actually bunch of small miracles which will make instant music for their personal needs. That’s why we have performance mode full of sterile drum patterns (instead of useful orchestral splits and layers) filled with arpeggios and to use them you need just basic piano chords knowledge. Who cares about RAM.

I agree, people just want preloaded stuff, pre-made libraries, PRE 1,PRE 2, PRE 3 etc…
(Me too actually, I really enjoy the Voices from EASY SOUNDS / Peter Krischker, Dance Xpanded is the best, I love it)

However when you get a Voice Library or use a PRE-made voice, you sound generic and to be unique you need RAM.
The MOTIF is not an ENSONIQ - for example, when you slice a waveform it eats up your RAM, it’s not sliced in place like on ASR-10 but it’s copied and then sliced up into smaller pieces.
The 128 RAM is great for beginners… and so are the PSR portable keyboards from Yamaha.
So what I’m saying is that I don’t like the direction the MOTIF series is heading.

The average users should not buy this keyboard, it’s for professionals only!
And in the end the pro users are not satisfied.
Correct me if I’m wrong but why is Timbaland still using ENSONIQ ASR-10 and MOTIF ES7 ?

As for cutting down the technology - I miss the PLG, and now I’m gonna miss the mLAN.
These were really great technologies but just not for the average user.

First the original poster did not understand the basic concept of Flash.  Loading flash samples does take longer the RAM, but you only have to this once and then sounds are always inside the memory , you never have load them again.

Also the Flash isn’t just for loading libraries.  You can store your own samples in Flash as well.  You can also copy between Flash and RAM freely.

If you look at the internal wave ROM of the XF , it Is a total of 741 MB. Every sound in the XF including all the pianos and strings could have been developed in the XF RAM area as no sound (even with all it’s velocity layers) is larger than 128 MB.

If you like creating your own samples , you do that and when you are done store them in Flash.  So the only limitation is that one complete instrument with it’s velocity layers must be no larger than 128mb.  That is 12 minutes and 40 seconds of stereo samples at 44.1 kHz and 16 bit.

We have dealt with a lot of samples, and 12 minutes is a long time.  The only libraries we can see exceeding this limit is acoustic pianos. Garriton is working on a 1gb library , but it has many many sounds in it and none of them are larger than 128 MB.

Hope that helps !

Yamaha_US - 20 August 2010 12:02 AM

First the original poster did not understand the basic concept of Flash.  Loading flash samples does take longer the RAM, but you only have to this once and then sounds are always inside the memory , you never have load them again.

Also the Flash isn’t just for loading libraries.  You can store your own samples in Flash as well.  You can also copy between Flash and RAM freely.

If you look at the internal wave ROM of the XF , it Is a total of 741 MB. Every sound in the XF including all the pianos and strings could have been developed in the XF RAM area as no sound (even with all it’s velocity layers) is larger than 128 MB.

If you like creating your own samples , you do that and when you are done store them in Flash.  So the only limitation is that one complete instrument with it’s velocity layers must be no larger than 128mb.  That is 12 minutes and 40 seconds of stereo samples at 44.1 kHz and 16 bit.

We have dealt with a lot of samples, and 12 minutes is a long time.  The only libraries we can see exceeding this limit is acoustic pianos. Garriton is working on a 1gb library , but it has many many sounds in it and none of them are larger than 128 MB.

Hope that helps !

Ok I agree most sounds are smaller than 128MB.

What about Ocean Way Drums for example?
It’s a 195MB (194.2 to be precise) with 5 waveforms.
This exceeds the 128MB RAM and it’s only one voice. (Ocean Way Kit UDR A01)

My point is that larger libraries would be easier to create on the XS rather that on the XF.

Ocean Way is a drum kit and no single drum sound with all it’s velocity is larger than 128 MB.

So it could have been sampled on the XF.  You are right that very , very large libraries will be easier on the XS and many professional sound developers will use the XS partly because if they do , their sounds will work for both XS and XF users.  We just don’t think the 128 MB will be much of a limit for end user sampling and people who are into sampling their own sounds and “ being original” will appreciate that they can access up to 2 GB of their own sounds immediately with the Flash boards

That sucks - I’m not interested then in motif XF, yamaha you’re heading wrong direction. Now I understand why XF is actually cheaper then XS.

Athan, is it possible to use libraries smaller than 128MB when there’s no Flash installed?

What I would like to know is why?
Why only 128MB of RAM?
Is there a limit in Monte Vista Linux?

Or is it just because Yamaha is leaving “headroom” for their new workstation (Motif XFR...) with both, 2G of Flash AND 2G of RAM?

tuquoque - 20 August 2010 05:13 AM

Or is it just because Yamaha is leaving “headroom” for their new workstation (Motif XFR...) with both, 2G of Flash AND 2G of RAM?

sadly, that is highly possible…

2 GB of flash memory is great.  However, If the XS supports 1GB of sample RAM, why not give the XF 1 GB of sample RAM versus 128 mb?  Obviously some one thought it was important that the XS has 1 GB of sample RAM.  More RAM can’t hurt anything but can certainly help.

Personally, I just wish both Yamaha and Roland expand the sampling in their workstations not cripple them (or do very little to advance it) like in these latest products.

And how would YOU decide on the fly which memory to use for what?

I think the XF architecture is OK.

;JOOP!