I know that KeyFax distributes several sound libraries here on the motifator site and I am considering purchase of a couple, mainly the complete orchestra and the symphonic strings for my XS.  Their demos sound pretty good but I’m thinking there was quite a bit of tweaking to get them there.  If I buy these libraries is there any support for them here, any tips and tricks?  Sort of like the behind the manual stuff.  Or does Yamaha have a “thats a 3rd party software” kind of attitude about it?

If you’re looking for an orchestral library. There’s also a third one.
It’s called Symphonic Suite. Check out the demo’s and user manual.

http://shop.motifator.com/index.php/voice-libraries/motif-xs-voice-libraries/symphonic-suite-for-motif-xs.html

http://www.motifator.com/index.php/forum/viewthread/445457

Thanks bergertje!  I’ll consider this one also.

T4MH

T4MH - 05 March 2010 04:50 AM

I know that KeyFax distributes several sound libraries here on the motifator site and I am considering purchase of a couple, mainly the complete orchestra and the symphonic strings for my XS.  Their demos sound pretty good but I’m thinking there was quite a bit of tweaking to get them there.  If I buy these libraries is there any support for them here, any tips and tricks?  Sort of like the behind the manual stuff.  Or does Yamaha have a “thats a 3rd party software” kind of attitude about it?

I am the creator of Complete Orchestra (DCP productions).

You ask if there is a lot of tweaking going on in the demos - absolutely yes. There is a lot that goes into an orchestral demo for any orchestral
library, whether it is Complete Orchestra, or a huge software library like
Vienna or East-West. You have to understand how to orchestrate all the individual parts, which sounds are the best to use (for example, there
are several clarinets in Complete Orchestra, not just one), and how to
“play” each of the instruments correctly and in the proper ranges.
No one can sit down with a string ensemble patch and get Stravinsky’s
“Rite of Spring” out of it - orchestral music is a very complex collection of multiple moving parts.

In the two symphonic demos for Complete Orchestra (the “Chabrier Rhapsody” and “Nutcracker"), I layered individual solo strings over
the ensemble strings, per section, and also combined solo brass tracks with ensemble brass. That helps to give the impression that some instruments (such as first violins) are closer to the listener than
others. For some of the string parts, it was multiple solo strings, each
an individual track playing an individual part - because that’s what
happens in a real orchestra.

The demos were all sequenced in Digital Performer and recorded as multiple audio tracks, then mixed and mastered - like any album track. This is the way everyone in the real world does a demo for a commercial soundware product - they record into a DAW such as Cubase, Logic, Pro Tools, or Digital Performer. The point of the demo is to show how the product can be used, in the best possible light. And if you want to
create truly convincing orchestral music, then you should be using a DAW too (along with learning the ranges and behaviors of each instrument, how to arrange and compose, and how to track and mix).

Hellow T4MH

as an owner of “Complete Orchestra” by DCP productions for quite a while now, i definitely highly recommend! this product is well produced, has a complete variety of remarkable Orchestral sounds that where carefully chosen and designed.

i’m using this library mostly on stage, where i need some serious orchestral sound on the fly, for me it is simply the ultimate alternative instead of carrying my Laptop with all the heavy sound libraries which i prefer using only in my studio.

DavePolich - 05 March 2010 02:55 PM

T4MH - 05 March 2010 04:50 AM

I know that KeyFax distributes several sound libraries here on the motifator site and I am considering purchase of a couple, mainly the complete orchestra and the symphonic strings for my XS.  Their demos sound pretty good but I’m thinking there was quite a bit of tweaking to get them there.  If I buy these libraries is there any support for them here, any tips and tricks?  Sort of like the behind the manual stuff.  Or does Yamaha have a “thats a 3rd party software” kind of attitude about it?

I am the creator of Complete Orchestra (DCP productions).

You ask if there is a lot of tweaking going on in the demos - absolutely yes. There is a lot that goes into an orchestral demo for any orchestral
library, whether it is Complete Orchestra, or a huge software library like
Vienna or East-West. You have to understand how to orchestrate all the individual parts, which sounds are the best to use (for example, there
are several clarinets in Complete Orchestra, not just one), and how to
“play” each of the instruments correctly and in the proper ranges.
No one can sit down with a string ensemble patch and get Stravinsky’s
“Rite of Spring” out of it - orchestral music is a very complex collection of multiple moving parts.

In the two symphonic demos for Complete Orchestra (the “Chabrier Rhapsody” and “Nutcracker"), I layered individual solo strings over
the ensemble strings, per section, and also combined solo brass tracks with ensemble brass. That helps to give the impression that some instruments (such as first violins) are closer to the listener than
others. For some of the string parts, it was multiple solo strings, each
an individual track playing an individual part - because that’s what
happens in a real orchestra.

The demos were all sequenced in Digital Performer and recorded as multiple audio tracks, then mixed and mastered - like any album track. This is the way everyone in the real world does a demo for a commercial soundware product - they record into a DAW such as Cubase, Logic, Pro Tools, or Digital Performer. The point of the demo is to show how the product can be used, in the best possible light. And if you want to
create truly convincing orchestral music, then you should be using a DAW too (along with learning the ranges and behaviors of each instrument, how to arrange and compose, and how to track and mix).

Hello Dave, and thanks for the detailed response!

Let me explain.  I can actually play all of the instruments in the orchestra and know a lot about each.  I use Sonar and a harddisk recorder.  I also am a composer and know about voicing/orchestration.  I have been working in the Film and TV world where REALISM ( samples )is paramount.  To this point I have not done anything orchestral, rather Pop/Rock, Hip-Hop, RnB and so forth, other genres.  I cannot record a 1st violin part 16 times to simulate the 1st violins as an example.  So I need software and I have been considering something like EWQL because most others in my field who do orchestral music seem to gravitate to it.  Your demos really seem to be on a par.

I don’t think I have the PC horsepower to run EWQL so that and the cost of the software make EWQL really expensive.  Not only that but I would really like to stay within my XS for all of this genre as it is my main instrument for all other genres.  But I don’t see any tech support on the keyfax website or any tip and tricks for creating really realistic tracks like you have described above.  Lastly, I don’t think I can simply purchase Orchestra Complete and for instance, load a Spicato Strings and have it just magically sound like the real thing.  Possibly I’m wrong.  So, once again, is there any support for this software?

Thanks
T4MH

botega - 06 March 2010 08:52 AM

Hellow T4MH

as an owner of “Complete Orchestra” by DCP productions for quite a while now, i definitely highly recommend! this product is well produced, has a complete variety of remarkable Orchestral sounds that where carefully chosen and designed.

i’m using this library mostly on stage, where i need some serious orchestral sound on the fly, for me it is simply the ultimate alternative instead of carrying my Laptop with all the heavy sound libraries which i prefer using only in my studio.

Hi Botega!

My problem is that these days I don’t do any live work.  Everything I do is studio and I’m just wondering if I can make Complete Orchestra compete with some of the heavy sound libraries.

T4MH

T4MH - 09 March 2010 06:35 PM

DavePolich - 05 March 2010 02:55 PM

T4MH - 05 March 2010 04:50 AM

Let me explain.  I can actually play all of the instruments in the orchestra and know a lot about each.  I use Sonar and a harddisk recorder.  I also am a composer and know about voicing/orchestration.  I have been working in the Film and TV world where REALISM ( samples )is paramount.  To this point I have not done anything orchestral, rather Pop/Rock, Hip-Hop, RnB and so forth, other genres.  I cannot record a 1st violin part 16 times to simulate the 1st violins as an example.  So I need software and I have been considering something like EWQL because most others in my field who do orchestral music seem to gravitate to it.  Your demos really seem to be on a par.

I don’t think I have the PC horsepower to run EWQL so that and the cost of the software make EWQL really expensive.  Not only that but I would really like to stay within my XS for all of this genre as it is my main instrument for all other genres.  But I don’t see any tech support on the keyfax website or any tip and tricks for creating really realistic tracks like you have described above.  Lastly, I don’t think I can simply purchase Orchestra Complete and for instance, load a Spicato Strings and have it just magically sound like the real thing.  Possibly I’m wrong.  So, once again, is there any support for this software?

Thanks
T4MH

No, there wouldn’t be any “support” for Complete Orchestra, explaining how to best create realistic orchetsral scores with it. There isn’t any
support like that for the larger software libraries either. There are
books on orchestration, articles on using sampled instruments effectively in magazines like Computer Music, Music tech, and Future Music (google those magazine titles for their websites), and of course
books and resources on the basics of MIDI and audio recording.

I can’t “teach” anyone how to play a sampled violin convincingly, at least not in a few words. That just takes practice and knowing how the
real instrument behaves. What I do know is that using a string ensemble
voice or patch is not as effective as recording individual instrument
tracks one at a time. The principal that describes how sections in an orchestra “divide up” their parts is called “divisi”. A few very expesnive orchestral libraries (Los Angeles Scoring Strings, or LASS, for one) employ “divisi” through complex scripting. Normally, if you play an ensemble voice, the waveform is several instruments playing in’unison - let’s say it is eight violins. When you play a five note chord, you have 40 violins playing - not what happens in the real world.
In the real world, the eight violins would all be playing individually to “compose” the chord. That’s why it is best to at least layer individual instrment parts over an ensemble chord to give it more realism and articulation.

The demos you hear for orchestral libraries are put together by people
who are skilled at using the libraries, and they are all recorded as
audio from the MIDI parts. If you bought East West Quantum Leap Orchestra based on the demos, and then installed it, called up a string ensemble, and expected things to sound like the demos, I’ll guarantee that you will be in for a big disappointment. The string ensemble patch will just sound like a workstation string ensemble.

Dave, once again thanks for the reply!  I understand exactly what you are saying here.  I just need to spend more time editing patches in general on my XS.  I’m guessing that if I purchased the library I can at least pick your brains just like I do with the Yamaha folks here.  BTW, did you have anything to do with the Symphonic Strings Library?

T4MH

T4MH - 12 March 2010 08:20 PM

BTW, did you have anything to do with the Symphonic Strings Library?

T4MH

No, I did not have anything to do with Symphonic Strings. That is another
developer’s product.

Dave

I have 512MB on my XS.  If I purchase Orchestra Complete, which I’m thinking I will do next week (tax return!),will I need to upgrade to 1G?

Thanks
T4MH

T4MH - 23 March 2010 03:50 PM

Dave

I have 512MB on my XS.  If I purchase Orchestra Complete, which I’m thinking I will do next week (tax return!),will I need to upgrade to 1G?

Thanks
T4MH

It’s written :

“Complete Orchestra XS” consists of 256 user Voices, 128 Performances, and 6 ready-made song mix templates utilizing almost 211 megabytes of samples.

Well that makes sense, duh…
Thanks Twinton!

T4MH