EricMonroe - 09 November 2017 05:02 PM

Ok, moving along well now adding voices to the Mix, and enjoying it.

Currently, it’s not sounding the same as the original voice, even with copy parameters set to on (in Modes).

I will endeavor to investigate that soon unless you have any quick suggestions for me ;)

(echo delay times are different for example, and more)

thank you,

Eric

As you are finding, there are many variables to address with regard to how a VOICE sounds, once you decide to insert it into a PART in a PERFORMANCE or MIXING.

This Article may be helpful to you, as it comprehensively addresses the many issues you are confronting.

(ok my post below was posted before I saw your reply, must have been in a 2nd page load that I didn’t see… I will read that article now Thanks)

As I am adding voices to the mix… I am finding limitations.

It appears to me, that there is now only one common effects section per mix?

So let’s say I have a loud multi-echo delay on one voice… and a gnarly chorus on another… deep cavernous reverb on another voice… I can’t have all those in one mix… is that correct?

And for sure, once I have dialed in these effects in voice mode, it doesn’t transfer over to the mix. Is that correct?

I have tried the ‘voice copier’ feature in Melas software as well, and it DOES copy however, only when I do that, the mix features the most recent ‘copy’ so my other effects from other voices in other parts now lose their effects. At least that’s how it is working for me now.

Thanks in advance,

Eric

This support article might provide additional insight:
http://www.motifator.com/index.php/support/view/insertion_effects_differ_from_the_system_effects

So the dark areas are getting lit.

Let me make sure I understand, so bear with me.

I CAN have a myriad of effects per saved Mix but better if they are within the voice using the insertions A and B. Am I understanding this?

To explain, I had built some of my voices using the effects in the Chorus and Reverb section, and I don’t think its wise when you want to move many voices over to Mix (or performance?) building your voices in that method:

If the effect is critical to the voice, then better to start building my voices using the insertions, so when they end up in a Mix I can move over my exact sound.

If one voice has a deep reverb, another has a strong tremolo, one has repeating echo delay, one with a strong phaser… I can get up to at least 8(?) insertions in my Mix (plenty i hope! haha)

I have to admit I fell into a small state of depression when I was trying to accomplish this…

However I kept reading the support articles you listed in this thread, and the manuals, and I was able to persevere… I hope I have this right yes?

thanks, Eric

Yes, a maximum of eight Parts can have dual Insert Effects.

Yes, of course, any effect critical to a Voice should be one of the Insert Effects you use. If you run out of Insert Effects (have more than eight Parts in a Mix “needing” them), you’ll have to decide for which Parts the Voice sounds good enough without them, just relying on the System Effects.

One caution I’ll raise is to be judicious when applying reverb and/or chorus as both Insert Effects and as System Effects. The System Effects typically serve to integrate the Parts in a Mix into a single “sound-stage”. If the reverb and chorus characteristics of the Insert and System Effects are significantly different, the cohesion can be lost and it’s possible for the listener to find the sound somewhat disconcerting. I find that closing my eyes while listening helps to determine if there’s a problem in that respect.

In my opinion, playing/creating music should elate, not depress (even slightly), so you might give yourself a bit more time to figure this stuff out. You seem to be well on the way. After several years of owning an XS and XF, I’m still learning, and only rarely get frustrated by my Motifs now.  ;-)

Hey 5 pin, I just wanted to say thanks. I have been using the mixing mode extensively for setting all my sounds for each live song. It is amazing. Sorry, I last mentioned being frustrated, however, that is long forgotten.

I am also using the PC change from my footswitch to advance up ONE. Which as you know works in song mode as well.

I did however accidentally bump it, and it moved up one in the middle of an extensive voice edit, and I was not able to recover my work.

Any tips on how to get back to my edited version if I accidentally move forward one voice?

thanks! Eric

EricMonroe - 27 December 2017 05:30 PM

Hey 5 pin, I just wanted to say thanks. I have been using the mixing mode extensively for setting all my sounds for each live song. It is amazing. Sorry, I last mentioned being frustrated, however, that is long forgotten.

You’re welcome. I’m glad things are progressing.

 

EricMonroe -

I am also using the PC change from my footswitch to advance up ONE. Which as you know works in song mode as well.

I did however accidentally bump it, and it moved up one in the middle of an extensive voice edit, and I was not able to recover my work.

Any tips on how to get back to my edited version if I accidentally move forward one voice?

Both Voice and Performance modes have “Edit Recall” capability, if you should accidentally choose another Voice/Performance before storing any edits. Unfortunately, that function isn’t available for a Mixing Voice being edited, should you accidentally switch Songs. It probably would have been good if the XF disabled Foot Switch PC Increment during Mixing Voice editing.

The only suggestions I have are to either frequently STORE as you’re editing, or temporarily disable the PC Inc, which could easily be done just by unplugging the foot switch.

Ah, I knew that existed but could not find it. So JOB, Then F2… awesome, thank you.

Good to know that it works on Voice, and performance mode. I DO save often, however even 5 mins of adjustments can be lost in a blink.

I know how to disable the footswitch. After it happened to me twice in one day, it is now firmly embedded into the wall across the room! ;)

So I am now heavily deep into using the mixing mode to prepare my songs for live performance. It has been a blessing. (XF) I am at least 15 songs deep now and many of those use all 16 parts. Whew!

My question is: In mixing mode… can I attach another keyboard (via midi) to be involved… so lets say I want one of the parts in mixing mode to be performed on a physically different midi keyboard (thus giving me perhaps the full range of a piano, while the XF keyboard is split up in the remaining 15 part ranges)

Thank you in advance.
Eric

EricMonroe - 21 February 2018 11:51 AM

[...] My question is: In mixing mode… can I attach another keyboard (via midi) to be involved… so lets say I want one of the parts in mixing mode to be performed on a physically different midi keyboard (thus giving me perhaps the full range of a piano, while the XF keyboard is split up in the remaining 15 part ranges)

Yes, an external keyboard can be used to play any of the 16 Parts in a Song or Pattern.

At the XF, the Utility mode Interface MIDI In/Out setting should be “MIDI” - STORE to keep it there.

At the external keyboard, set the MIDI transmit channel to match that of the XF’s Part you want to play.

Connect a 5-pin MIDI cable from the external keyboard’s MIDI-Out to the XF’s MIDI-In.

Of course, the above assumes that you aren’t using USB or FW to communicate with the XF while performing. If that’s not the case, then using 5-pin MIDI can still be done, but it becomes more complicated.

Okay awesome!

The only USB connection I may want to have plugged in might be the John melas librarian Etc. I would not need to be using the software and the other keyboard at the exact same time, but ideally would prefer they are connected especially during programming of the mixing mode. Does this qualify as you mentioned being more complicated? Thank you

EricMonroe - 21 February 2018 01:48 PM

[...] The only USB connection I may want to have plugged in might be the John melas librarian Etc. I would not need to be using the software and the other keyboard at the exact same time, but ideally would prefer they are connected especially during programming of the mixing mode. Does this qualify as you mentioned being more complicated? Thank you

When the XF MIDI In/Out setting is “USB”, the 5-pin connections don’t function the same as when that setting is “MIDI”. To minimize complication I suggest that you do any editing of the Mixing while the XF is in control. Then you can switch the MIDI In/Out setting to “MIDI” and verify that things are what you want.

Otherwise, with MIDI In/Out set to “USB” the 5-pin connections have to be dealt with via USB Port 3. See MIDI channels and MIDI ports on page 57 of the XF Owner’s manual. To have an external keyboard that’s connected to the XF’s 5-pin MIDI-in trigger the XF’s tone generator, the incoming Port 3 data has to rerouted via the connected computer to Port 1. How that can be accomplished depends on the capabilities of the software being run on the computer.

Thank you.

On another note as per my other post. I’m looking for somebody that I could pay to do some XF voice programming emulating Pink Floyd sounds Etc and I am a little surprised that there isn’t anyone jumping on the opportunity. Do you know of anyone who can do that?

EricMonroe - 21 February 2018 04:17 PM

Thank you.

You’re welcome.

 

EricMonroe - 21 February 2018 04:17 PM

On another note as per my other post. I’m looking for somebody that I could pay to do some XF voice programming emulating Pink Floyd sounds Etc and I am a little surprised that there isn’t anyone jumping on the opportunity. Do you know of anyone who can do that?

I’m not surprised. Based on my experience on Motifator, I suspect that the majority of Motif users don’t do Voice programming to any great depth.

There are a couple of Voices for “On The Run” in the Vintage Keys library…
http://shop.motifator.com/index.php/voice-libraries/motif-xf/vintage/vintage-keys-xf.html
From the PDF for the XS version of VK:
H14 – Pink Floyd 1
The famous sequenced bass line from the song “On The Run” on Pink Floyd’s Dark Side of the Moon album.
H15 – Pink Floyd 2
The bubbling-filter synth and diving helicopter sounds from the same song on Dark Side of the Moon.

I don’t know anyone in particular who is currently available to do custom Voice programming. You might try to contact the programmer of the above-linked library. I’d expect that even if he’s willing, the price might be prohibitive.