There is a very simple issue relating to software - connectivity and immediacy.

To get sounds out of your software you have to connect it to a suitable controller - we’re talking keyboards here on this forum, but it might be an alternative controller - up to you. But then there is the issue of immediacy (I don’t mean latency, but that has been an historic consideration) I have an idea and I need to play something right now and try it out.

So, classic acoustic instruments, lift the piano lid, grab the guitar from it’s case and off you go.

With a keyboard such as the Motif line, it may not be as immediate as this - you power up keyboards and plug up amps and so on - eventually, but probably within a minute from cold, you get to make sounds.

With a laptop/desktop scenario, from cold, you have the boot time of the computer plus the software boot-time to add. Plus additional complexities of getting the relevant controller to laptop connection to work. (Wi-Fi can be the darndest stuff when it doesn’t want to connect!!) In a real world worst case scenario, you could have lost the moment before you are even halfway booted up.

Now consider this, most users on this forum tend to be knowledgeable techies for whom troubleshooting connections and so on is a doddle. But in the real world where I work, it’s a church setting and one or two of our players are tech savvy and one or two are definitely not and do not seem to have the wherewithal to get savvy - these people will struggle if we get to the point where the main keyboard is separated from the means of tone generation.

For both of these reasons, I am a happy proponent of real instruments that contain sounds that switch on and are ready to go quick (The MOX is much quicker than the XS in boot time) because I want to be ready to make music when I am in the zone. I don’t want to have to spend any time troubleshooting - I will keep that to studio maintenance or general upkeep, but not leave it to impinge on my creativity.

BUT - software is the place where much new synth exploration is being done. So gents, can I suggest that for these reasons, most of us do not need one or the other - we actually need both - they both have strengths and weaknesses and in the age old discussion of which is better, Yamaha, Roland or Korg, we all know that the truth is each has their own strength - same with soft and hardware.

Hope you have managed to follow the drift of my post.

Cheers

If your software is capable to switch between sounds instantly then your argument is not valid anymore (Kronos does it right and it probably has some linux based os on it).

What you meant here, I think, is real time usability. Again IMHO, new DAWs and VSTis are getting close enough to this point where it could be done on the fly. This is part of the tight integration. Software must be tailored for the hardware, and vice verse, consider that the great thing with this approach is you are not bound to the keyboard anymore (which is very unfair IMO), just look at the keyboards that has been produced so far, they all have some number of keys and the technology for the mechanical parts advances really slow.

Creating sth from the scratch takes more time but adding new modules and features to a software takes much less time. Consumers become happier for seeing how fast they can get new features for reasonable prices and so on and instead of wasting time and money on creating a new board you can invest on extending the capabilities of the DAW and its VSTis. This is what a perfect gear should look like and I believe Yamaha and the rest should focus and do serious research on this. Definitely upgrading your hardware will be come cheaper as it’s modular. Keyboard and several other pieces which are not once piece of instrument like MOTIF or Kronos but more like a PC. You want more memory, buy the memory, you need a better advanced audio interface buy the audio interface.

What you mentioned here is not the future but the CURRENT status. I guess it wont stay like this and software will take over pretty quick. Soon you will use your tablet like device and you can have Bluetooth, wireless etc etc devices hooked up to your controller and have a touch screen at your hands.

When I purchased my S90XS and my Motif XS 6 last year, the sales person talked about something similar to what abdol is talking about.

He gave me some senarios of connecting these workstations to a computer and utilizing additional Vst Voices instead of the various third party Voice Banks I have been using installed in my workstations. My work is mainly ‘Live’. I have an audience in front of me and the ‘last thing’ I need to do is ‘fiddle around’ with accessing Voices from a computer. Sure, I ‘could’ program them in advance, but I don’t always know what I need to ‘play’ in advance. I start out with an opener and then I ‘read the room’. I don’t work from a list. I try to get a sense out of where my room is and where I want them to go. Sometimes the ‘magic’ works and sometimes I’m just playing what ‘pops into my head’.

I don’t doubt that there will be a day where computers, which hold more memory than the workstations, will be a plus if not necessary.  To say that workstations will go the way of the 8 Track and Cassette is a bit of a stretch.

To Brother Wellie’s point, I see bands weekly at a place I go after my gig. Some work with computer suppliments and some don’t. Guess which ones are the most effective? The ones that DON’T work with computers. The ones that do, from time to time have to do a ‘search’ if they are trying to accommodate the ‘room’. And audiences just ‘love’ Dead Air.

Now for ‘recording’a case can be made. You have the time and the Vst’s are improving. I have a few in Cubase I would like to include in my User Banks. Probably could. But then again, thanks to DaveP and The Bad 1 and the flexability in these workstations, I can edit to suit.But I digress.

If there is anything we have learned here in Motifator is that we are different people with different ways of working and have different goals and purposes. Those of us who have been here a while have seen lots of ‘abdol’s’ come and go. People that see a glass ‘half empty’ and that last ‘half’ is just a ‘sip’ that will NEVER quench their thirst.

And no matter what Yamaha does, and just look at all of the designs and efforts they have made to please, there will ‘still’ be ‘someone’ who just can’t be satisfied. And they get ‘their’ satisfaction dogging out what ‘isn’t’ there and those who utilize effectively what is....and ARE satisfied....even grateful.

Well back to cleaning up my ‘useless’ workstations and gear. I’m on vacation for a week and then it’s back to my soon to be ‘antiquated’ system. Woe is me. Woe is us. Woe is Yamaha.
Just a thought........

My two cents.

What about a workstation in the future that is a hybrid of a dedicated computer as well as a workstation?

Best of both worlds!

abdol - 04 September 2013 12:53 PM

Keyboard and several other pieces which are not once piece of instrument like MOTIF or Kronos but more like a PC. You want more memory, buy the memory, you need a better advanced audio interface buy the audio interface.

Go buy an Open Labs Neko and live happy.

I’ve seen few of these keyboards. This is not what I meant. This is windows running a DAW! This is not a tight integration. The first property of such a system is an embedded operating system which this thing fails to deliver.
It also does not have the proper interface. It’s just the windows interface.

I think what abdol is predicting will eventually happen is workstation synths will become a thing of the past once someone comes up with an all-purpose MIDI/VST-compatible keyboard with zero latency and incredible ease of use. These days you can get HDs which can hold terrabytes, whereas your average synth workstation generally holds less than one gigabit-worth in its ROM.

Nevertheless, I’m sure that there are some people who do in fact integrate their synths in such a way and are more than content with what’s in front of them. I still have my classic Motif-8 and am more than happy with it. I use it primarily for basic songwriting tasks. Heck, I don’t even have a USB cable for it, although I’d sure like one. :P

Sidenote: In order for me to get MIDIs and such onto it I need to first burn them onto a disc and then load them into my Motif via the external disc drive. An antiquated method, to be sure.

The closest one is Receptor and V-Machine. At least they have embedded OS and load few VSTis. If they re-engineer these products and solve their problems they’ll be among the most successful gadgets for giging.
It certainly blows any keyboard Yamaha has ever made so far out of the water.
I don’t know what Yamaha has to offer but I honestly wouldn’t give Yamaha a single treatment If this thing comes with a big touchscreen and a user friendly interface.

Ah just noticed that they’ve made a new version 2 which is a pretty sweet gear. Check this out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXFL-fUQ-ls
I hope Yamaha has something worthy to offer in the sound department. One thing which is really important with these keyboards is the sounds. The engineers at Yamaha should understand that If they sacrifice lot of hardware compared to a PSR product (I’m talking about MOX), they should bundle the instrument with really decent sounds not the same crap. I hope Yamaha understands this one day.

It certainly blows any keyboard Yamaha has ever made so far out of the water.

You do realize that Yamaha keyboards can technically connect to a PC and do all of that stuff you described, right? If you so desired, you could use the PC/Mac as your all-in-one sound/editing/recording hub with the Yamaha acting as the primary instrument for input and control.

Besides, this isn’t really an argument worth having. Musicians will use whatever tool they want depending upon personal preference. Even if you had a set-up with thousands of sounds, VSTs and what-have-you, there’s always going to be a demand for certain equipment. People aren’t going to cease wanting FM-synth, Rhodes, Moog, and so on, especially purists who want the real thing, not a simulation thereof.

The point of such system is reliability for a live performance. You can’t trust let’s say Cubase in a live performance, it crashes easily. That’s why such hardware are produced.

What’s the point of having a kronos or a motif if you have a hardware that can outperform them? Then just buy a midi controller (just like a keyboard and a PC/MAC) which will cost you 1/3-1/4 of the price of those keyboards (I meant the midi keyboard) and eventually the same price and better soundset.

If you’re talking about analog ones yes I agree because analog sounds different and digital is just a modeling, but if you meant digital ones, I disagree.

Kronos’ moog does not sound like analog moog. I didn’t get your point here though. MOTIF or Kronos are doing the same, sampling and digital simulation. This receptor can do sampling pretty good (I don’t now how much good but I’m sure Komplete does a decent job in this department).

Komplete sounds pretty decent and I personally consider this gear as my next purchase. And the heck! it runs PIANOTEQ!

IMO these hardware are playable in live performance more than kronos or motif if they have a better interface and a decent sequencer.

It’s impressive how much they’ve improved it. It’s exactly in the direction I’m talking about here.

Just a note to myself…