I’m learning to play the Grateful Dead song Estimated Prophet. This is quite a challenge because the song is in 7/4 time. A big part of my purpose is to learn to play in that time signature (I already know how to play in 5/4 courtesy of Dave Brubeck Quartet’s Take Five. I like playing in weird time signatures.)

I imported the song MP3 into Cubase as an audio track. The song is too fast for learning purposes, so I “Time Stretched” it by 150%, slowing it down to 2/3 speed.

Now what I want to do is play along with it on my XF7 and record the MIDI. In order to allow correct synchronization of the audio with the MIDI, I did a “Tempo Detection” on the audio track, which produced a Tempo Track for the project.

After this, I checked by turning on the Click in the Transport Panel and playing the whole song. The Click was right on the beat all the way through. Then I played along and recorded on a MIDI track. The timing and correspondence with the audio was perfect.

But here’s the mystery: when I look at the audio track in the Sample Editor, the Musical Mode button is turned off (I can also see that this is the case by looking at the audio file in the Pool Window.) When I turn Musical Mode on, the Cubase timing falls out of synchronization with the audio.

My understanding of Musical Mode is that this mode should be turned on for the beats and bars to line up properly, but the opposite is happening. This makes me think that my understanding of Musical Mode must be seriously mistaken in some way.

I have Musical Mode turned on in the project window inspector for both the audio track and the MIDI track, but in neither case does that setting seem to make any difference whatsoever. This seems to be a different setting for the audio than the button in the Sample Editor, which is another part of the mystery.

I’ve read the Cubase Operations Manual sections on this many times, and searched around on the Internet, but so far the light bulb in my head has not lit up. I’m hoping someone can explain what’s going on.

Thanks…

Well, maybe I just solved my own mystery.

I just did a Set Definition From Tempo to the audio track, and now the Musical Mode button is lit up, the audio is playing perfectly in time, and I have nice new orange lines on every beat in the Sample Editor.

I can kind of see why this made a difference. But I’m still a little foggy on the concepts and would be happy to have someone who knows all about this helped me achieve a better understanding.

I just followed the directions on page 925 of the Operations Manual and disabled the Tempo Track. Now I can set the project tempo and the audio plays perfectly in time to whatever tempo I set!

I guess I didn’t need to do the Time Stretch to begin with. Cubase has a really ferocious learning curve, and for me this involves a lot of time, a lot of experimentation, and a lot of hitting my head against the wall. But every now and then I actually accomplish something… :-)

It’s not related to your learning curve, but I’d be interested in knowing how much and how often the tempo varies in the tempo track you generated from the original, given it’s a 1977 track recorded in a ‘human manner’ on tape.

If you can get it in a screenshot, I’d be interested to see it.

You’ve likely got the usual ‘human’ timing variables and then variables associated with the different speeds and possibly fluctuating speeds of the various tape machines involved in recording and mastering it at the time.

philwoodmusic - 17 December 2015 11:53 PM

I’d be interested in knowing how much and how often the tempo varies in the tempo track you generated from the original, given it’s a 1977 track recorded in a ‘human manner’ on tape.

If you can get it in a screenshot, I’d be interested to see it.

You’ve likely got the usual ‘human’ timing variables and then variables associated with the different speeds and possibly fluctuating speeds of the various tape machines involved in recording and mastering it at the time.

Good question.

The tempo varies on every beat. I’ve always thought of The Dead as being able to hold a pretty steady tempo, but apparently a computer can do it better.

Here’s the screenshot you asked for:

Click thumbnail to see full-size image

Thanks for this, it’s pretty interesting

I’m sure they can keep a beat very well indeed.

I’d take a bet that the variations are much more to do with the tape machines being unable to run at a constant speed, like pretty much every tape machine ever.

It was likely multi tracked to tape, possibly 2 inch tape. The mixes were then likely printed to another 2 inch reel for mastering, and then tape would have been involved when they transferred it from Analogue to Digital at some point in the future. A variety of tape machines and tape (which can stretch) might have been used over the whole project.

I guess the only other thing you could look for is a pattern of regularity in the various changes over the duration, but I probably just hit nerdville.

philwoodmusic - 20 December 2015 05:53 PM

[...] I’d take a bet that the variations are much more to do with the tape machines being unable to run at a constant speed, like pretty much every tape machine ever. [...]

Having once upon a time been an employee of Ampex, I can assure you that every effort was made to minimize such variations.

Nevertheless, a Google search on “grateful dead ampex” (without the quotation marks) will turn up some interesting “hits”.

Of course, then there’s the oxide shed/stick problem with Ampex 406/407/456/457 tape.

Ahhh, the good old days... ;-)

As much as some people pine for analog “warmth”, and fault digital for being “cold”, having artifacts, etc., there’s something to be said for digital. I have yet to have a need to measure wow and flutter on digital gear.  :-)

5pinDIN - 20 December 2015 06:47 PM

Having once upon a time been an employee of Ampex, I can assure you that every effort was made to minimize such variations.

I bet standards slipped after you left.

philwoodmusic - 21 December 2015 12:32 AM

I bet standards slipped after you left.

Hah! Too funny, good one Phil.

philwoodmusic - 21 December 2015 12:32 AM

5pinDIN - 20 December 2015 06:47 PM

Having once upon a time been an employee of Ampex, I can assure you that every effort was made to minimize such variations.

I bet standards slipped after you left.

If only I had that degree of influence while I was there.  :-)

stoneb3 - 21 December 2015 12:53 AM

philwoodmusic - 21 December 2015 12:32 AM

I bet standards slipped after you left.

Hah! Too funny, good one Phil.

Slippage? What slippage?  ;-)