MW Q
I am not sure if this is working as designed. If MW is in any given position while playing a voice/performance and you change the current voice to something else, you get a kind of unwanted behavior that sounds often ugly. Let’s say you have selected any given synth pad voice with a phaser on MW and the wheel is in middle position. When you change the voice the MW effect changes to the lower position although the wheel is still in the middle and when you just touch or move the wheel there is a sudden change in the sound of the effect and it does not sound good at all. Am I meant o have the MW in the lower position as soon as I change the voice? Is there a setting that can rectify this or this is working as designed? The same happens when you start a performance and the MW is not in the starting position.

Sustain pedal Q
If you are playing with sustain pedal applied, when you change the voice the sustain effect disappears. It only starts again when you release and press the pedal. This does not happen on my Clavinova.

cajo - 20 December 2013 02:24 AM

MW Q
I am not sure if this is working as designed. If MW is in any given position while playing a voice/performance and you change the current voice to something else, you get a kind of unwanted behavior that sounds often ugly. Let’s say you have selected any given synth pad voice with a phaser on MW and the wheel is in middle position. When you change the voice the MW effect changes to the lower position although the wheel is still in the middle and when you just touch or move the wheel there is a sudden change in the sound of the effect and it does not sound good at all. Am I meant o have the MW in the lower position as soon as I change the voice? Is there a setting that can rectify this or this is working as designed? The same happens when you start a performance and the MW is not in the starting position.

This behavior is determined by the Controller Reset setting, which can be either “hold” or “reset”. See CtrlReset on page 142 of the MOXF Reference Manual for details.

cajo - 20 December 2013 02:24 AM

Sustain pedal Q
If you are playing with sustain pedal applied, when you change the voice the sustain effect disappears. It only starts again when you release and press the pedal. This does not happen on my Clavinova.

By using a Mixing, you can have smoother transitions. See:
http://www.motifator.com/index.php/support/view/using_a_moxf_mixing_program_for_quick_access_to_multiple_sounds_in_a_live_s

Here is some additional information about how this works… From previous posts........

When a MIDI message called “RESET ALL CONTROLLERS” is sent, all controllers are returned to their default condition. Foot pedals to maximum, MW to minimum, PB to center, etc., etc. any time this message is sent all MIDI devices must respond… It is a MIDI system fail safe.

This is the reason your Foot Controllers seem to jump to maximum… (and it explains why your MW seemingly comes alive when nudged). They are being told to do so. Any time you change Programs a Reset message is sent which returns these controllers to an agreed upon nominal condition.

Only the PB Wheel is spring-loaded which forces it’s physical position to its reset position.

So it is completely normal for any device to have its Foot Controller send maximum value when reset.  It also is completely normal that a MW left up resets to zero when a new Program is recalled, but as soon as it is touched the “up” value is sent and applied to the current program. If you would like to keep your controllers “live” when you recall a Program, set the parameter responsible to “HOLD”.

Press [UTILITY]
Press [F1] GENERAL
Press [SF6] OTHER
Set CONTROLLER RESET = HOLD
Press [STORE]

This is not a cure all, however. There are still times when the RESET ALL CONTROLLER message is forced through the system, the key as a MIDI performer is “know” when your system is going to be reset so that it is not a “surprise”.

And yes there should be a mental and physical routine (checklist) you have when approaching any instrument sound. We are sure if you play piano some thing like this is routine: sit with knees just under the keyboard, sit so your forearms are parallel to the floor, pedals positioned between your feet (but not engaged) etc.
When playing a synth add MW down, Foot pedals down, feet off the sustain pedal…

The CONTROLLER RESET = HOLD setting will work as long as you remain within the current mode.
That means, if you are in VOICE mode and you move to any other Voice, if the pedal is at minimum the value will persist through to the next Program. Literally, control values will “hold”.

If you are in PERFORMANCE mode and the Expression pedal is at minimum, move to any other PERFORMANCE and the minimum value will be inherited.

However, switching modes (Voice to Performance, Song to Voice, Pattern to Performance, etc) the RESET will occur. Knowing when the reset will occur - this ceases to be as big a problem.

Hope that helps… With the Controller Reset parameter and armed with knowing “when” it works should reduce your surprise value jumps… and specifically for the MW it is your responsibility to return the MW to its nominal physical position. It is not spring-loaded and physically remains where it is left. This is great when using it as a mix or balance control, but not so much when assigned to bringing in some parameters. It works as a dedicated controller which always sends cc001. While cc001 is fully customizable as to destination, its primary role is apply DEPTH (amount of change) from 0 at rest, and 127 at maximum.

Think of the MW as your method as a keyboard player of applying vibrato (its most common role) for a horn player, guitar player, violinist this is a specific “physical gesture” skillfully applied to modulate the pitch in a musical significant manner. I mentioned “responsibility” and this is what I mean by that, because the synth has these physical controllers that attempt to give a keyboard player a method of emulating the results of a gesture that the acoustic instrument player applies to get vibrato. Pressure and release on the sax reed, finger position on a stringed instrument… These are some of the physical gestures you have to apply via a MW… Not perfect… Particularly since you manually have to disengage it (remember to return it to minimum) each time you stop applying modulation and certainly before you begin a new performance.

Bad_Mister - 20 December 2013 04:56 AM

However, switching modes (Voice to Performance, Song to Voice, Pattern to Performance, etc) the RESET will occur. Knowing when the reset will occur - this ceases to be as big a problem.

Good info in that post. It sounds like the “knowing when” is mostly pretty straight-forward, once you know the concept… though more complicated if you use Master mode, where essentially you can be switching between things like Song and Voice mode without that “conscious” decision to switch modes.

The fact that the mod wheel does not spring back (which is a good thing in general) does create a “no perfect solution” scenario. If you inherit the old setting, a newly invoked sound might inadvertently have unintended modulation; if you don’t, there is the danger of the value jump when you move it, as well as the possibility of inconsistent operation depending on whether or not you change modes, and also just a visual ambiguity of the controller’s placement not matching its operation. Maybe a future hardware implementation could be something like an illuminated touch strip, which would allow you to alter the setting as you play just as you can with a wheel, but it could automatically reset itself ("spring back") to zero on a patch change.

The MW has been around for most of the history of synths… Using it properly means returning it to minimum. Always has… Just because brains today don’t / can’t remember their best friends telephone numbers isn’t really a good thing… Keep sharp by remembering to lower the MW.
:-)
If one has issues with (remembering to zero it) select a controller that automatically resets to zero. I cannot imagine a guitarist forgetting to stop applying vibrato, why should we forgive the keyboardist? See what I mean?

The advantages of a non-spring loaded control are obvious, I would not trade it in this instance… I’ll remember to use proper MW technique, thank you. I know that’s personal opinion and I respect all other opinions.

Bad_Mister - 20 December 2013 03:43 PM

The MW has been around for most of the history of synths… Using it properly means returning it to minimum. Always has… Just because brains today don’t / can’t remember their best friends telephone numbers isn’t really a good thing… Keep sharp by remembering to lower the MW.
:-)
If one has issues with (remembering to zero it) select a controller that automatically resets to zero. I cannot imagine a guitarist forgetting to stop applying vibrato, why should we forgive the keyboardist? See what I mean?

But mod wheels are not always used for “effects” like vibrato that you use and immediately release. In fact, I find it a second rate tool for that job, aftertouch is much better, and I would only use a mod wheel for that if AT were unavailable.  For me, the wheel is preferable for making shifts that you may want to leave in place for a while. An obvious example that would be Yamaha-specific is that it is the control for organ rotary speed. So there’s a case where, if the last sound you played was fast leslie, and you need to switch to a new sound, you could have to specifically remember to take that wheel down to avoid a jarring effect on the new sound (either immediately, or as soon as you move it, depending on how you have it set).

Anyway, just because something has been around since the beginning of synths doesn’t mean it’s “the” way to do it. Heck, the original Minimoog had a pitch wheel that didn’t spring back. I think most people now would prefer the more common spring version. It would have been a poor argument at the time to say “forget the spring, use your brain and proper synth technique, and do it the way we always did!”

To be clear, I do NOT want a mod wheel to spring back. That’s something I specifically dislike in things like Korg joysticks and Roland paddles. I want aftertouch for that kind of automatic release of mod function. I was just postulating a different controller that could give you kind of the best of both… i.e. a ribbon you would operate the same way as a wheel, that would allow the mod amount to stay in place where you set it, yet also had the ability to (metaphorically) spring back (i.e. reset itself to zero) on a patch change. I guess a kind of repurposing of the touch faders Akai has on their controllers (which I’ve never tried), or something similar, placed next to the pitch wheel. Then again, I’ve kind of always liked ribbon interfaces for things… instead of a pitch bend wheel, I wish the MOXF had the cool pitch ribbon of my old CS60! Another improvement over the Minimoog. ;-)

Bad_Mister - 20 December 2013 03:43 PM

The MW has been around for most of the history of synths… Using it properly means returning it to minimum. Always has… Just because brains today don’t / can’t remember their best friends telephone numbers isn’t really a good thing… Keep sharp by remembering to lower the MW.
:-)
If one has issues with (remembering to zero it) select a controller that automatically resets to zero. I cannot imagine a guitarist forgetting to stop applying vibrato, why should we forgive the keyboardist? See what I mean?

The advantages of a non-spring loaded control are obvious, I would not trade it in this instance… I’ll remember to use proper MW technique, thank you. I know that’s personal opinion and I respect all other opinions.

Thank you all for your answers. I guess I will have to “Keep sharp by remembering to lower the MW.” as Bad_Mister said.

That’s all I’m saying. Knowing that this controller is what it is, it should automatically be apart of your getting ready to play. Every musician, on any instrument has a routine which you must follow to prepare to play.

Synthesizer is no different, perhaps it has a few strange ones… But not unprecedented.

If you play the first keyboard (talking organ) you must work the expression pedal and several levers and stops, in preparation to play. Even on an acoustic piano you have a routine.

Get a routine down, and in that checklist put check my wheels… Your a pilot, before take off run the checklist, then you’re prepared to fly!