Hi guys!

As stated on a previous Post, I have been recording several of my Parts, all “live” at the same time, all in one pass, to my DAW (Logic Pro X).

Bad_Mister offered this suggestion:

Bad_Mister - 04 December 2013 09:24 AM

You gain nothing by recording the drums or EP at the same time as the bass. You’re not taking advantage of building your audio tracks in multiple passes. In fact, your results will definitely improve when you transfer your parts one at a time, you’ll have to trust me on this. You may not think so now, but when you a little more time doing this, you’ll see.

When it comes to production, I try never to be in that big of a hurry. I transfer tracks to audio one at a time on the MOX / MOXF.

I’ll say it again:

USB 3/4 is group bus (monitor)
USB 1/2 is the isolation bus (record)

As I record a Part, I then mute it in the MOXF and use the audio track to monitor
Finally all Parts will be transferred as audio, this entirely frees my MOXF hardware to create new musical parts!

So my questions tonight are:

1) How many of you do as I’m doing (recording several audio Parts “live") in one pass?

2) How many of you sequence all your Parts on the MOXF and then transfer them to the MOXF?

If you prefer method (2), if you have (12) Parts to your song, if you transfer your tracks to audio one at a time as Bad_Mister suggests I try, will all the audio Parts line up correctly?

Please note that my only point of reference is a MOTIF XF with a FW16E, which can transfer up to 16 channels at one time to a DAW.

No and No :-)

p_e,

Please explain to old Jerry what you mean.

And don’t say sometimes no means no!

:-)

Thanks!

Jerry

Hi Jerry,

I wouldn’t do it all in one pass even if I could do 32 channels or more all at once.

Recording multiple tracks at once is great if you have everything the way you want it, but in many people’s case, including mine, the other parts aren’t even written yet and so don’t exist - or they may exist but not be definitive yet and so recording them just because I can, is a waste of time.

When I’m completely happy with my notes and how the music sounds (and the voice is right) then I record a part on its own and just zone in on it until it’s recorded the way I want.

All of my midi comes from the DAW itself because that’s where the music was composed, so I can very easily just record the piano audio, then record the bass audio later in the day if I like because it will record in time that way.

If your music is in the Yamaha’s sequencer and you want to get all those parts to record in time during different recording passes, you have to start looking at transmitting MIDI clock destination with Logic or consider exporting your tracks as a MIDI file from your Yamaha to Logic and working that way. (this may involve reassigning sounds and FX once done)

There really is no need to rush, as BM points out. 

The basic point of what you are trying to do is surely to have full mix control over your separate tracks in Logic once recorded, so, as long as your notes are right and using the right sounds, why care how many passes you make?

The interface is set up so you CAN record 2 x stereo pairs at once, but not because you have to.

You also posted this same question in the Motif XF section. No need to post the same question more than once.

I answered you at length in the Motif XF section.

Hi (the other) Phil!

I’m so intrigued and want to use as many tools as I can to become as more efficient songwriter as I can, so that is why I ask so many questions,

So please forgive me if I’m bugging you or any of my fellow Forum Members!

Moving forward, when I’m writing my originals, believe it or not, they are completely written in my small head before I physically touch the keyboard. I can play drums, bass, keyboards and various horns (I play each instrument in different bands), so I’ve already heard/written each of those parts.

I even see (in my head) the notes being played on each specific instrument before I sit down in front of my Yamaha Keyboard.

I say all of the above not to brag, as 99% of most players can play circles around me (yeah, especially you my mentor, Mr. Bad_Mister!), I just want you to know how I think.

As an aside, if I had more money to go to a Studio, I would already have recorded 10 times as many songs in the time it has taken me to complete one song using the MOXF8 and its usb connectivity.

If I had the moola, I would go to a Studio, tell the Engineer to hit “Record” and I’d nail each Part in just a few takes (easy to do if you already know what you’re going to play on an original that you’ve written).

Please elaborate on how you record with your Yamaha and your DAW.

I take it you record your drums first?

If so, do you mean that you record an entire 3 minute drum track in one pass first?

Thanks!

Jerry

DavePolich - 08 December 2013 08:32 PM

You also posted this same question in the Motif XF section. No need to post the same question more than once.

I answered you at length in the Motif XF section.

Hi Dave!

The reason I sometimes Post on two Forums is because since the MOXF is “newer”, I’m thinking (perhaps incorrectly) that MOXF owners might not be as familiar with their MOXF as XF owners are, and perhaps they might not know the answer to some of my questions, hence the second Post.

But thanks for all the times that you help me (I’ll go read your answer now)!

Jerry

jerrydpi - 08 December 2013 08:47 PM

Please elaborate on how you record with your Yamaha and your DAW.

I take it you record your drums first?

If so, do you mean that you record an entire 3 minute drum track in one pass first?

Thanks!

Jerry

I rarely start with drums first, but if I was going to start with drums first, I’d set up an external midi track in Logic, choose a drum kit on my board on part 1, then I’d tap out my kick part (and do any editing or quantising needed) then I’d set up another external midi track on part 2 and perhaps assign the same drum kit to it and tap out a snare part.  I’d keep going in this manner with new external midi tracks each time and on each new drum sound until I had my drum pattern the way I want it or I’d reached 16 MIDI parts.

This is recording MIDI of course.

(and presuming I want to use the keyboard’s USB interface to record the audio at the end of it AND that I use the MOXF exclusively which is not always/often the case)

I’d hope to have created my whole composition before I started to record any of it as audio though...and that could unfold in any order (and usually does) so I’ll only record to audio tracks when I’m good and ready.

I’m used to working by paying attention to the harmony (chords etc) first but no matter what I do and in what order I do it, I always treat the drums and percussion as individual sounds AS WELL and set them all up to be individually controlled each on their own midi tracks (just like multi tracking a real drummer with multiple mics)

I’m also used to using other sources of drums and real drummers too, so in most cases I would only ever really need a few choice things from my Yamaha but it doesn’t matter as long as you remember you can have up to 16 separate parts at once via MIDI. 

So, with each drum on its own MIDI channel, I can move them all around and change the music until I’m satisfied that it is all ready to be recorded to separate audio tracks (by this time my drums/perc will hopefully mesh with my other sounds like my bass and chords or whatever else I’ve used.

When it comes to recording the drum parts to their own separate audio tracks (or indeed any other sound to separate audio tracks) all I have to do is mute the MIDI tracks I don’t want to record at that time to ISOLATE the one I DO. (by pressing their respective mute buttons on their midi tracks in Logic)

If I mute everything but the kick, then all I will hear coming from the MOXF or whatever board, is the kick on its own, so I can then set up an audio track and set the correct input on the audio track in Logic for the MOXF and begin to record. (3 & 4 since they are the default part outputs for a MOX/MOXF etc.)

When I press play in Logic, Logic is sending the MIDI to the MOXF at the same time the audio is coming back IN to Logic from the MOXF USB, so I get to record my kick in perfect isolation on its own track AND in perfect time.  I can then repeat the whole process for each additional MIDI track/part/sound on additional audio tracks.

(Make sure your MIDI local control on your board is set to OFF or you will hear doubling when working with external midi tracks)

I work like this with every sound I need from the keyboard no matter what...and in the end, I get full control over every single sound, each on their own tracks and in time...all rendered.  It’s a very steady ‘one by one’ way of working and the original MIDI tracks you started with become redundant once you’ve recorded the audio for each part they control.

A simple case of starting split up...and ending split up.

Conversely…

From what you’ve said though, you have an entire drum performance for a song all on one part (not split up as such) so if you can export it (and your other parts) from your MOXF as a MIDI file, you can load it into Logic and separate the drums out on to separate midi tracks and achieve the exact same thing mentioned above,

Alternatively and since the music currently resides on your MOXF onboard sequencer, you’d want Logic to transmit MIDI clock to your MOXF and work very much in the same way I have described above but from the controls on the MOXF as such (by isolating parts)

The MIDI clock will keep things in time (each time you record a new part) because it locks the MOXF to the DAW in sync and any time you hit record in Logic, your MOXF will begin to play in sync (sending the audio to Logic to be recorded in time)

jerrydpi - 08 December 2013 07:17 PM

p_e,

Please explain to old Jerry what you mean.

And don’t say sometimes no means no!

:-)

Thanks!

Jerry

Two good answers above - ( one on XF forum but still counts :-) ) I have nothing I can add :-)

Phil,

Give me a while to digest what you have said.

Thanks (and talk to you later)!

Jerry