Hi All,

I recently tried to operate my MM6 via a midi cable by playing my XS8 and was not able to get this working correctly.

I have been able to make the XS8 sound by playing the MM6 but not the other way around.

Is it actually possible to use a second keyboard to sound the MM6?
If it is then I’m obviously doing something wrong and I will go away and play with the settings again!
Thanks for the feedback.

Hello, i’ve got a similar problem.

I can’t send program changes (CC 00 and CC 32) to the MM6 by using an external controller which works perfectly on other sound modules.

I read the manual, on page 74 it explains how to connect a sound module, but not how to connect a controller. I wonder why…

It seems like you can’t change MIDI channels, am I right?

“the MM6 transmit channel are fixed: main voice CH1, dual CH2, split CH3”

When i send a program change, the controller plays the correct sound, but the program doesnt change on the MM6 !!
It sounds very strange to me, since there isn’t a multi mode… and i didn’t find out how to set the RX MIDI channel yet.

Anyone can help, please?

Tarz,

Killer,

I am afraid I have some very disturbing news for you, unless Athan or Phil can give us a solution.  Since I have been using my MM6 as a tone generator for Sonar on my PC with no problems, I was surprised to see your post.  At the outset, I suspected the XS.  I started by connecting the MM6 to my PSR-3000, using the PSR as the controller.  Everything worked better than expected.  I couldn’t believe how well the MM6 voices followed what I selected on the PSR, so I compared their voice charts.  They are essentially the same - a few minor differences, but not enough that anyone would notice. So that explains that.  All controls worked - pitch bend, mod wheel, etc.  Next I connected the MM6 to the XS6, using the XS as the controller.  At first glance, everything appeared to work - pitch bend, mod wheel, even the control knobs.  Then I switched the XS from Bank 1 - Voice 1 to Bank 1 - Voice 2, and the MM6 locked up.  I had to power it off/on to get it working again.  I eventually worked my way in to the XS midi setup and turned off Program Changes.  Now everything worked fine with two exceptions.  I could only select the first 16 voices on the MM6 from the XS front panel.  If I went to Bank 2 on the XS, I still just got the first 16 voices on the MM6 and none of the controllers worked - understandable, since I had turned off Program Changes.  It appears that any time there is a voice change, the XS is sending some kind of program change that the MM6 does not understand and locks up.  I suspect that this would occur with other non-PSR keyboards and probably most controllers.  I don’t think the MM6 was ever intended to be used as a tone generator other than for a DAW where you can install a custom instrument def file and control exactly what is being sent.  I now understand where the MM6/8 fit into the scheme of things.  They are essentially scaled-down PSR arrangers with some Motif Voices and arps and real time synth controls.  So, they give you some of all three worlds - arranger functions, synth functions, and workstation functions for 600 bucks.  Such a deal, but sorry it doesn’t look like you will be able to do what you wanted with it.

Regards !

Ted

Thank you Ted,
i have just another question.
In the end of the MM6 manual, there is a table containing MSB LSB and program change number for each voice.
If I try to send the correct messages, I can’t get any sound.
It looks like it can receive performance, but not program changes.
The main point is...I can’t figure out how to set the RX MIDI channel.
But if they printed that list in the manual, the program change RX must probably be implemented! Am I wrong?

Killer,

Most of the keyboards I have owned have two basic modes of operation.  The Keyboard mode turns on from one to several midi channels (internally or externally) for playing voices (single or split or layered) from the local keyboard or from an external controller.  In the case of an external controller, the send/receive midi channels need to be matched between the two units, as you apparently already know.  In Midi mode, you can turn on all 16 midi channels at the same time for connection to an external hardware or software sequencer.  In either case, Control Changes for bank selection and Program Changes for voice selection are sent over the same midi channel on which the changes are to occur.  CC’s and PC’s for Channel 1 are sent over Channel 1, CC’s and PC’s for Channel 2 are sent over Channel 2, etc.  The MM6/8 appear to accomplish setup for this in the Utility Menu with the PC Mode selection - Off for keyboard mode and On for connection to a PC or hardware sequencer (Midi mode).  My MM6 seems to operate just fine with Sonar whether I turn PC Mode on or leave it off.  My Casio WK3800 is the same way.  Just connect them to the PC, bring up Sonar, load a song, hit Play, and they work.  Granted, there may be some voicing mismatches, if the voice lists are different, but from a connection standpoint, it is as though they are always more or less in a Midi mode.  That is to say, all 16 midi channels are always turned on, so declaration of a receive midi channel is not necessary and no provision is made for selecting it.  Since these are both entry level devices, I suspect that this is to make them easier to use with an external sequencer without a lot of elaborate midi setup.

Anyway, I still have some suspicions about the Motif XS in regard to the above as it pertains to your dilemma, but I need a couple of days to experiment with different combinations of keyboards to be sure.  I suspect that the XS, and possibly most or all, of the high end keyboards send something in addition to simple CC/PC data that the lower end keyboards do not understand and causes them to lock up.

Be back to you in a couple of days.

Regards !

Ted

Ok Killer !

I found the answer a little faster than I thought I would.  I ran the midi output of my MM6 and my PSR-3000 into my PC and recorded some simple scales into my sequencer software while I was changing voices. I then went into the midi Event List and looked at the events that had been recorded.  In both cases, on every voice change, the keyboard would send a Control Change 0 - 0 - 32 - X, which is a Bank Change.  The X is the actual bank number.  The Bank Change was immediately followed by a Program Change for the selected voice in that bank.  These were then followed by another Control Change to set the volume and then Control Changes for reverb and chorus settings if the selected voice used them. 

The important number in all of this is the Bank Change Number ( 0 - 0 - 32 - X ).  Since the MM6, the PSR-3000, and the Casio all use this format for Bank Changes, that is why they work together.  When I recorded the output of the XS6 and checked the Bank Changes, I got 0 - 63 - 32 - X.  When the XS is connected to one of those other units and sends a Bank Change, as soon as the other keyboard sees the 0 - 63 come across, it doesn’t know what to do with it and locks up.  There does not appear to be any way to change the XS.  I think this is Yamaha’s way of ensuring that you only try to send Bank Changes to devices with an identical voice map ( XS Rack ).  Where this could get to be really important is if you are trying to control an XS keyboard or rack from a midi controller keyboard.  If that controller can not be programmed to use the 0 - 63 - 32 - X format for Bank Changes, you could be pretty much SOL.

I have been using my XS6 with my Roland JV-2080 since I got the XS6.  The JV is Roland’s top of the line rack unit from some years ago.  I know it uses the 0 - 0 - 32 - X format, but I have never run into this problem, because I purposely set up the JV not to accept Bank and Program Changes.  I mount it on a small shelf above the XS and control voice selection on it manually from its front panel.  If I want XS only voices, I turn down the volume on the JV and vice versa.  Plus I can layer JV voices with XS voices or split the XS keyboard and have an XS voice on one part and a JV voice on another part.  I couldn’t do that if the JV voices were changing every time I changed a voice on the XS.

Once again, sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

Regards !

Ted

Hey - I bet if you guys read my post at the top you could answer my problem!!!
Namely - the mm6 sustain pedal transmits on Ch. 1+2 simultaneously and I wondered if I could get it to only transmit on Ch. 1.  good luck.

timtrax - 23 April 2009 01:04 AM

Hey - I bet if you guys read my post at the top you could answer my problem!!!
Namely - the mm6 sustain pedal transmits on Ch. 1+2 simultaneously and I wondered if I could get it to only transmit on Ch. 1.  good luck.

that is also my problem. :-(

I have long given up any thought of using my MM6 as a sound module, played via MIDI from a master keyboard.
(MIDI Out on the Master keyboard to MIDI In on the MM6).
MIDI IN on the MM6 has been crippled. (I suspect it is to stop it from being used as a low cost Sound Module).

It is the only one of all my MIDI keyboards that cannot be used as a simple sound module.

It can be used as a master keyboard, and transmit MIDI data via MIDI Out, to an external keyboard…
...but not the other way round.

It has long been a gripe with the MM6.

Otherwise, it is an excellent keyboard...played on its own…

Paul...MO6 + MM6.