Well if they want to censor me it seems like they’re going to have to censor the whole forum now.

The cat IS out of the bag.

DCP, whom I respect, has posited that Yamaha has nothing to prove.

I call BS on that.

Assuming we are going to open our wallets is not fait accompli.

Yamaha has (and have if you’re british) to prove that there is a REASON to open our wallets.

You, DCP, and Yamaha, cannot assume that since the XF was annointed the successor our wallets will mystically open.

Not in any economy, and definitely not in this one.

So show us why, yes, prove, why, we should open our wallets.

It’s BS to say they have nothing to prove. They have a hell of a lot to prove to get $3000.

Go ahead, question which synth manufacturer I work for that I need to question why I need to spend $3000 on your product.

Make fools of yourselves.

I have a wife—and when she questions—and there is no answer—there is no sale.

It’s up to you to prove why it’s worth it. And if it isn’t, it isn’t.

Don’t give me some donkey feathers about how you or Yamaha doesn’t have to prove anything. If you want our money, you have to prove why it’s worth it, not the other way around.

Yes, this forum has gotten ugly, yes I’m part of it, but I’m part of it because I’m locking horns with the no bullshit paradigm. (Eg, I don’t take handwaves as answers and fully fight back on it).

A waffle is not an answer.

Maybe you don’t like the reaction --- too bad. It’s better to learn early the word on the street than to get completely blind sided by it.

If the US intro isn’t going as the Emporer had forseen, then maybe you’ll have a better shtick in play for the Euro intro. Not that I’ll profit from the early indicators or free advice.

Am I pissed off that the XF isn’t what I wanted it to be? A little.

Am I pissed off how my concerns, and the concerns of similar like minded users have been dismissively handled by Yamaha USA? Absofuckinglutely.

If you want my money, show me the value.

If the value is there, my money is there.

If the value is not there, neither is my money.
F

PS Next time introduce your product in Scandinavia first like a lot of companies do eh? Maybe you did and I missed it. If not, good thing for next time

Scandinavia ?
Why ?

Funkster - 07 September 2010 10:55 PM

Well if they want to censor me it seems like they’re going to have to censor the whole forum now.

The cat IS out of the bag.

DCP, whom I respect, has posited that Yamaha has nothing to prove.

I call BS on that.

Assuming we are going to open our wallets is not fait accompli.

Yamaha has (and have if you’re british) to prove that there is a REASON to open our wallets.

You, DCP, and Yamaha, cannot assume that since the XF was annointed the successor our wallets will mystically open.

Not in any economy, and definitely not in this one.

So show us why, yes, prove, why, we should open our wallets.

It’s BS to say they have nothing to prove. They have a hell of a lot to prove to get $3000.

Go ahead, question which synth manufacturer I work for that I need to question why I need to spend $3000 on your product.

Make fools of yourselves.

I have a wife—and when she questions—and there is no answer—there is no sale.

It’s up to you to prove why it’s worth it. And if it isn’t, it isn’t.

Don’t give me some donkey feathers about how you or Yamaha doesn’t have to prove anything. If you want our money, you have to prove why it’s worth it, not the other way around.

Yes, this forum has gotten ugly, yes I’m part of it, but I’m part of it because I’m locking horns with the no bullshit paradigm. (Eg, I don’t take handwaves as answers and fully fight back on it).

A waffle is not an answer.

Maybe you don’t like the reaction --- too bad. It’s better to learn early the word on the street than to get completely blind sided by it.

If the US intro isn’t going as the Emporer had forseen, then maybe you’ll have a better shtick in play for the Euro intro. Not that I’ll profit from the early indicators or free advice.

Am I pissed off that the XF isn’t what I wanted it to be? A little.

Am I pissed off how my concerns, and the concerns of similar like minded users have been dismissively handled by Yamaha USA? Absofuckinglutely.

If you want my money, show me the value.

If the value is there, my money is there.

If the value is not there, neither is my money.
F

PS Next time introduce your product in Scandinavia first like a lot of companies do eh? Maybe you did and I missed it. If not, good thing for next time

Funkster, the horse is dead. No sense in beating it continuously.

No one is saying you have to buy it. Just don’t buy it. It’s obvious you
don’t like it...nothing in the design is going to change. Save your money and keep working with what you have.

No one is going to censor you - but there are those who disagree with you (like me). I think the XF totally rocks. I see no limitations with
it. All features considered, it kicks the ass of every other workstation
currently available - note the words “all features considered”.

As far as Scandinavia, Scandinavia (especially say Norway) was a popular place to introduce products because:

1) It’s cold there; if the product works (battery powred ones especially) it’ll work anywhere

2) Language and news issues; if someone in Norway complains then only the norwegians here about it; if someone in the US complains everyone here’s about it.

Although you would like this thread to be dead Dave, whther it lives or dies, the thoghts in peoples heads will never die.

So if Yamaha wants to avoid this issue they can, and they are going to see sales decline.

Also people are beating up the XF re flash and you say well flash has the waveforms..but what about the PATCHES?

Do you then have to (resave) the patches somewhere so you can load teh Flashized versions of the programs?  (sure you dont have to INITIALLY but how do you deal with making it “loadable” to reuse the patch area)

If so then it’s another new patch management headache given the limited user area.

I really like the sound of the XSPanded and the Organ samples Im using....but patch management is so unproductive that I just don’t have the desire to buy any more samples for the XS....

Let’s look at the math (if my math is wrong feel free to correct me)

Motif XF = $3000
1GB flash =$300
FW Card $300
Compatible Mixer/FW $600

Total price $4200

That gets us in the the “risk” territory that Joker was talking about viz Oasys and Neko.

To get the Motif to act like a VSTi/sampler (and it’s inherent flexible audio routing, which on the XS/F requires the FW) takes a lot mroe than just $3000.

Just don’t see it myself, where the thunder is.

I’d really just like to find good sound libraries that have good horns/articulations for VSTi.

F

Funkster - 08 September 2010 02:01 PM

Also people are beating up the XF re flash and you say well flash has the waveforms..but what about the PATCHES?

Do you then have to (resave) the patches somewhere so you can load teh Flashized versions of the programs?  (sure you dont have to INITIALLY but how do you deal with making it “loadable” to reuse the patch area)

If so then it’s another new patch management headache given the limited user area.

I really like the sound of the XSPanded and the Organ samples Im using....but patch management is so unproductive that I just don’t have the desire to buy any more samples for the XS....

I’d really just like to find good sound libraries that have good horns/articulations for VSTi.

F

You seem to be confused about patches (they’re “voices” in Yamaha
terms, btw).

The flashboard for the XF is for samples ONLY. Think of it as expanding
the ROM to up to 2GB. The samples, once loaded to the flash, are always
there and available when you power up. No more time spent loading
samples. Thus, you simply have a much much larger pool of waveforms available.

There is no such thing as a “Flashized” voice. No voices ever reside in Flash (or RAM, or ROM). They’re in a different area and
access the samples either in ROM, RAM, or Flash. There is no time difference between accessing samples stored in any of these areas.
It is instantaneous.

You can now specify loading voices “without samples” - meaning, that
once the waveforms are in Flash, you can just load voices that “point
to” those samples. Takes as long as it does to load voices that use
the ROM waveforms....as in, almost no time at all.

You have 4 User banks available for custom voices or voice libraries.
You can use the XF Editor or John Melas’ editor/librarian to shuffle
things around and have a large number of libraries from which you can
select what to load. If you’re looking for a way to have 8 or more user banks filled with every sound from every library you have, available on power up without the use of the editor/librarian - no that isn’t going to happen.

If you’re looking for VSTi horns, here are the best ones in the world:

Solo trumpet, saxes, trombone -

http://www.samplemodeling.com

Ensemble horns -

http://www.vir2.com/instruments/mojo-horn-section