I want to make sure I am reading that correctly… does that mean that the action of switching between these arps via the [SF1] ARP1 – [SF5] ARP5 buttons is “recorded” whilst recording in pattern/sequencer mode?

No, that is not what it means - although you are close. It means that the sequencer can record either you playing the keys normally or it records the notes output by the arpeggiator(s). It does not document the switch of the [SF1]-[SF5] button, it documents the results output by that button press.

in other words, it is pretty common to have a main groove setup as [SF1] ARP1, and perhaps a related fill-in as [SF5] ARP5

Say you are recording MIDI data generated by the arpeggios… and you setup to record 8 measures. You could have ARP1 generating data for measures 1-7 and during measure 7 you press [SF5] ARP5 and have the fill-in arpeggio type generate MIDI data for the eighth measure.

The actual MIDI note data that the Arpeggio pattern type is generating gets recorded to the Track of the sequencer. Later you will not necessarily know that you pressed [SF1] then [SF5].

I mention this difference because there are other instances where the button press is exactly what is documented. For example, when you are recording PATTERN SECTION changes to a PATTERN CHAIN. Press the SECTION [A] button followed by pressing the SECTION [B] button… is documented as a button press.

But with [SF1]-[SF5] ARP1-ARP5, it is the MIDI data that is generated by the arpeggio types that is recorded.

So I can’t record the knob movements of the user assignable knobs and/or any slider movements?  Once that performance is in song mode, surly I could overdub these knob movements?

Correct. And this is a change from the previous version (XS) where you could record ASSIGN 1 and ASSIGN 2 - which was good and bad. The GOOD was you could record the knob movement. The BAD was it applied to all four PARTS simultaneously (after all you are transmitting on a single MIDI channel when in PERFORMANCE mode). So you wound up having to either edit your PERFORMANCE prior to recording - deciding which PART you wanted to record that AS1/AS2 movement to… it also meant that you had redundant data on all four tracks, when perhaps you only wanted it on one.

Not a big deal - when recording PERFORMANCES in real time you mostly had both hands busy on the keyboard. But a better solution is found in the XF you can overdub the AS1/AS2 knob movements to a specific track later.

I should mention that for real time play you can use the [PERFORMANCE CONTROL] > PART SELECT [1]-[4] buttons to select the PART which you are going to real time control the ASSIGN 1/ ASSIGN 2 knobs

Screen shot 1 - shows the PERFORMANCE with [PERFORMANCE CONTROL] > COMMON EDIT selected (notice the AS1 and AS2 knob icons are not shown)

Screen shot 2 - shows the PERFORMANCE with [PERFORMANCE CONTROL] > PART SELECT [4] selected (notice the AS1/AS2 knob icons appear and will be applicable exclusively to PART 4 (as it is the currently selected PART).

This has been updated from how the Motif XS worked - where if you call up the PERFORMANCE USER 1: 045(C13) Free Fall, you will notice that turning the AS1/AS2 will always affect all four PARTS. Now you can individually control the AS1/AS2 function by selecting the PART.

Click thumbnail to see full-size image

Bad_Mister - 29 August 2010 05:13 PM

The actual MIDI note data that the Arpeggio pattern type is generating gets recorded to the Track of the sequencer. Later you will not necessarily know that you pressed [SF1] then [SF5]

This makes a lot of sense.  Thanks for posting the info.

Not a big deal - when recording PERFORMANCES in real time you mostly had both hands busy on the keyboard. But a better solution is found in the XF you can overdub the AS1/AS2 knob movements to a specific track later.

I see your points w/ this.  As long as I can overdub it later, it’s not a big deal at all. After all, these real-time knob capture limitations don’t exist in pattern/sequencer mode (that I am aware of), so there is yet another workaround (i.e. dump the performance to song mode, and then go to town).

Thanks again for your help.

I am watching your XS Master Class video (I downloaded it from the Keyfax store) - I figured if I got the World of XS for free, I could at least pop for this!

Great viewing so far Bad_Mister!  You mention the “real-time loop remix” feature when you are talking about scenes/patterns.  I went to read up on it in the XF Manual posted here, but it seems that “real-time loop remix” now refers only to samples, not MIDI (page 133); however, I found this on page 175:

Dividing the Pattern data to create a new Pattern—[F6] Remix
The Remix function divides the MIDI data in a selected track into several pieces of a specified note length, and randomly rearranges a portion of the data, letting you easily create completely new and unique rhythm variations—all from a single Pattern.

I assume this the same feature you demoed on the Master Class but w/ a slightly different name? Amazing feature BTW.... used in tandem w/ the Arps = whoa Nelly!

One last thing…

Say you are recording MIDI data generated by the arpeggios… and you setup to record 8 measures. You could have ARP1 generating data for measures 1-7 and during measure 7 you press [SF5] ARP5 and have the fill-in arpeggio type generate MIDI data for the eighth measure.

The actual MIDI note data that the Arpeggio pattern type is generating gets recorded to the Track of the sequencer. Later you will not necessarily know that you pressed [SF1] then [SF5].

...it just hit me how cool this is. If I understand you correctly, this would obviously free that Arp up for another track as it’s arp data has been recorded to a track.  It would also allow for micro editing of the note data if needed.  Sweet!

At this rate, if I get an XF, I think I will really hit the ground running.

There are two REMIX functions in the Motif XS/XF:
Real Time Loop Remix which is a PATTERN mode function that works only on MIDI data.  Regular MIDI data recorded to the sequencer and the MIDI data that is generated to trigger “sliced” Audio which has been recorded to the Integrated Sequencer and processed with the SLICE function.
Sample Loop Remix which is a Sampling Job that can be applied to any RAM waveform. This one works only on AUDIO data.

Here’s how each works:
REAL TIME LOOP REMIX: MIDI
Enter [PATTERN] mode
Press [F6] REMIX>
REAL TIME LOOP REMIX
TYPE = 1-16 _the higher the number the more complex the remix
VARIATION = Normal 1-16; Reverse 1-16; Break 1-16; Pitch 1-16; Roll 1-16; and Fill 1-48
INTERVAL = 1-8 _ the number of measures between the remixed data.

This function is non-destructive repositioning of MIDI data. It works on ‘sliced’ audio because sliced audio is an audio waveform that is sub-divided into time segments each assigned to a chromatically higher note on the keyboard. The SLICE function is used to animate audio loops. Take a drum groove - the slice function will analyze where audio burst occur and draw a line. Each ‘slice’ is assigned to a successively higher MIDI note, and a chromatical scale is created to precisely trigger its playback. Much like individual drawing are used to animate cartoons, you can speed up and slow down the chromatica scale to adjust the playback of your drum loop.

The REAL TIME LOOP REMIX remixes the MIDI trigger notes and thereby reshuffles the audio segments assigned to each note. REAL TIME LOOP REMIX always and only works on MIDI event data.

SAMPLE LOOP-REMIX: AUDIO
Enter [INTEGRATED SAMPLING]
On the Sample Select screen select a WAVEFORM
Press [F5] REMIX
or go to [JOB]
Press [F1] KEYBANK
Select JOB 10: Loop-Remix
Here your settings are as follows:
TYPE 1-4 _the higher the number the more complex the remix
VARIATION = Normal 1, Normal 2, Reverse 1, Reverse 2

This function is the repositioning of SAMPLE data. It works on AUDIO only (not MIDI). It divides the audio clip into segments and respositions them constructing a new audio waveform. In this case you are actually constructing a new wave by cutting and pasting the divided audio.

Brilliant stuff.

Can you belive I am out of questions? :)

Well, hopefully this thread was useful for others as well.

To everyone @ Yamaha and to the users @ Motifator, I truly appreciate your time and your detailed answers… it means a lot in advance of a 3-4K investment.  Good luck on your launch, though I am sure you won’t need it.